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#31
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everybody [in the Old West was] armed and dangerous
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:00:59 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote: Zoot Katz wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:35:29 -0500, Harry Brogan hbrogan57_AT_NOSPAM_DOT_YAHOO_DOT_COM wrote: How homicidal was the Old West? According to the best historical evidence today, the answer is: Extremely Homicidal. Thus, another bit of academic folklore bites the dust. ================================================== ==== - Frank Krygowski KUDOS to you on your research. However, will that stand up to ALL of the "old west". Starting at about the Mississippi river and continuing westward. It would seem that the information you have provided is all California and does not include other states. I'd like to know if that historic data includes the genocide of the native American people. butbutbut, that was only about 98-99% of the pre-European arrival population. Himmler must have been jealous of the effectiveness. The next cull is coming. Don't starve. . . or, for that matter, get a vaccination. -- zk |
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#32
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kind of impractical for cyclists to carry a gun under a lycrashort
On Apr 21, 5:53*pm, Eric Vey wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote: I simply quoted that article, but I share his concern. Settling something with a finger or a gun are two different things. The result of the equation above is that people are exposed to a real threat, particularly if they assert their right with a finger. And while few people actually get shot, the rest of the population live in fear. Particularly the cyclists. And we would have to start with changing the laws of the republic... Florida gives you an option to deal with this:http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html That's the only option left... In the jungle, if everybody got paws and teeth, you better get ready yourself. Only that it's kind of impractical for cyclists to carry a gun under a lycra short. But then you can wear a T-shirt like this... http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954...83217745636359 |
#33
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BAD LAWS + CARS + GUNS = DEATH & FEAR
On Apr 21, 7:16 pm, Zoot Katz wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:35:29 -0500, Harry Brogan hbrogan57_AT_NOSPAM_DOT_YAHOO_DOT_COM wrote: How homicidal was the Old West? According to the best historical evidence today, the answer is: Extremely Homicidal. Thus, another bit of academic folklore bites the dust. ================================================ ====== - Frank Krygowski KUDOS to you on your research. However, will that stand up to ALL of the "old west". Starting at about the Mississippi river and continuing westward. It would seem that the information you have provided is all California and does not include other states. I'd like to know if that historic data includes the genocide of the native American people. Or maybe it was a "war" so civilian casualties don't count. -- zk Indians --like cyclists-- count for little in the West. They must be happy with whatever space is left for them. Usually barren land, the equivalent of the gutters the cyclists get today. |
#34
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everybody is armed and dangerous
On Apr 20, 6:49*pm, ComandanteBanana
wrote: One of the problems we've got is that everybody is armed and dangerous. Like usual, you are grossly exagerating. Not "everyone" is armed and dangerous. Me -- for instance -- I am not usually armed and dangerous. Even when armed, I'm not dangerous to you. Nowadays the good-ol'-fashioned finger is not enough. Some carry a gun, and some simply use their vehicles as the weapon. What's a cyclist to do in such a jungle? I'm going to write a book, "Monkey survival skills for the cyclist." First advice... http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954...49274811492050 Road rage runs rampant on Bay Area highways ... For whatever reason, one's genitalia grow exponentially while moving at 40 mph in a steel and aluminum cage. Being at the helm of a 2-ton machine makes people feel powerful, I would assume, leading to extreme reactions from otherwise rational people. Unfortunately, those extreme reactions are becoming more deadly. As reported by the San Francisco Chronicle, a man driving on Interstate Highway 280 was shot from a passing car. The man who died, Luis Solari, died in front of his kids in the car. His offense: He cut someone off. The worst part is that this wasn't the first on Bay Area freeways this month. A woman was shot and killed April 3 on Interstate Highway 80 near Pinole, and a man was shot along the same stretch of freeway April 1. An arrest has been made in the former incident. A gun is unnecessary, and says a lot about violence in our society. Few problems, especially ones relating to cars, have ever been solved by use of a gun. Words, even hand gestures, are better answers to the whole problem. No one gets hurt with any of those. Even fisticuffs are better. Bruises go away over time. But expressing one's disgust at other people's driving by shooting a gun at them is revealing because it's solving the problem of anger with violence. Those who could angrily waive guns at you from passing automobiles and potentially use them, may be showing their small children in the back seats how not to act. Until this point, the worst I got for cutting someone off was the finger, not a bullet in the chest. http://media.www.thespartandaily.com...r852/news/2008... |
#35
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"never stand before the bull"
On Apr 21, 11:24*am, "Jeremy Parker"
wrote: [snip] Goodness gracious. All this is very un-British. I live, and ride my bicycle in London, which seems to be the far-away land that you are talking about. London's a pretty good city to ride a bicycle in, no need for new laws or conventions. Oh, c'mon. The article was written by a Briton about Great Britain. As, indeed, was my previous e-mail. As indeed is this one. *I can look out of my window, right here, at actual London traffic. I just wanted to know much better was in 1992 when I was there. I guess that's much better, due to the recent changes introduced. I've said your driving laws are very good Thankyou. *I missed that posting, I guess. *My apologies. *What is it about our laws that impresses you? *Are we unique, or do other places have similar laws? No, I was indeed teasing you, but a few GOOD SUGGESTIONS are found in that article. For example, the 20mph limit on the slow lane makes so much sense. We would start though by explaining to people there's such a thing as a slow lane. but I trust the writer's statement that cyclists still live under the law of the jungle in London to be right. Hmm. *As one who lives here, and cycles here, I would say that is unwise. *Cycling is safe enough here that, if you do choose to live by the law of the jungle, your mean free path between collisions might be long enough for you to get away with it, but it's still not a good idea. Things haven't changed here (Miami) in the last 15 years. I don't think they ever will. How many people ride bike in London? The should be new annual figures out any time now - watch for a press release from Transport for London on their web sitewww.tfl.gov.uk. Last years figures estimate 480 000 journeys a day. *I would guess that most people take around two journeys a day, rather than getting on the train with their bike to come home again. *Whether this includes journeys to a train station, I don't know. *Most London statistics count only the "main leg" of a journey, so riding to the station to catch a train might not be counted How about BIKE FACILITIES? It seems cyclists still must negotiate the streets. Copenhagen made bike lanes on major streets lately. Anyway, I'd rather ride a bike in London than in places where still the drivers ignore any civilized rules of the road. In America we have to tame the beast first. Having ridden many miles on both sides of th Altlantic, I would say that there is not much in it, though there are, of course, many places in the USA where I have not ridden (Chicago, for example). Civilized or not - that might depend on your definition of civilized, which doesn't always seem to be the same as everyone's on this newsgroup - I would say that there always are rules, and when you ride or bike, or are anywhere among other people, it's advisable to know what those rules are. I think the most basic rule of the road is LANE DISCIPLINE, without which the whole road becomes a zigzagging mess. If we don't have that we are left with the law of the jungle. I read the reviews of the book, but I'm sure even bullfighting can be done in a safe way if you know the tricks of the trade [snip] The moral of which, I take it, is to know the tricks of the trade. Buy a copy of "Effective Cycling" I'll check into it. But don't forget here's more bullfighting. |
#36
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everybody is armed and dangerous
Pat in Upstate New York, not Texas, wrote:
On Apr 20, 6:49 pm, ComandanteBanana wrote: One of the problems we've got is that everybody is armed and dangerous. Like usual, you are grossly exagerating. Not "everyone" is armed and dangerous. Me -- for instance -- I am not usually armed and dangerous. Even when armed, I'm not dangerous to you.[...] For most people, a motor vehicle is a more dangerous weapon than a firearm. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful |
#37
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"never stand before the bull"
On Apr 22, 5:03 pm, ComandanteBanana
wrote: How about BIKE FACILITIES? It seems cyclists still must negotiate the streets. Copenhagen made bike lanes on major streets lately. Streets _are_ bike facilities. Those thousands of London trips made by bicycle prove it. The trips I make every day prove it. The fifteen million miles ridden between bike fatalities are almost all done on streets, and that also proves it. Get over your irrational terror. Learn to ride properly, and stop whining. - Frank Krygowski |
#38
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"never stand before the bull"
Jeremy Parker wrote:
[snip] Goodness gracious. All this is very un-British. I live, and ride my bicycle in London, which seems to be the far-away land that you are talking about. London's a pretty good city to ride a bicycle in, no need for new laws or conventions. Oh, c'mon. The article was written by a Briton about Great Britain. As, indeed, was my previous e-mail. As indeed is this one. I can look out of my window, right here, at actual London traffic. I've said your driving laws are very good Thankyou. I missed that posting, I guess. My apologies. What is it about our laws that impresses you? Are we unique, or do other places have similar laws? and your new laws restricting traffic into London are very encouraging, Well, I have to admit that we haven't quite reached perfection yet. Oxford Street, for example, from which private cars were already banned before the congestion charge, has obviously - all too obviously - not had its congestion reduced at all, because all those buses, taxis, and delivery vehicles still clog it up. The "City" part of London probably benefited more from the "ring of steel" anti terrorism precautions which were introduced somewhat before the congestion charges reduced motorised traffic still further. but I trust the writer's statement that cyclists still live under the law of the jungle in London to be right. Hmm. As one who lives here, and cycles here, I would say that is unwise. Cycling is safe enough here that, if you do choose to live by the law of the jungle, your mean free path between collisions might be long enough for you to get away with it, but it's still not a good idea. Either London is like Amsterdam, or it's not a welcoming place for cyclists. Now you are just being silly. Cambridge is the British city which has more cycling than Amsterdam, but I think that London is a better city to cycle in than Cambridge. Of course, London has a good enough public transport system for really the only reason to ride a bike in London to be because it is fun. People travel thousands of miles to come and ride on our buses, and our taxis, and their drivers, really are wonderful. A London taxi can carry a bike, too, in case of emergency. London is rather bigger than Amsterdam. London was the largest city in the world when I was growing up, although other ciries have long since overtaken it. Amsterdam is such a dinky little town that you can **walk** from the center of town - the main train station - to the Ring Road, their beltway, in an hour. london public transport is good outer to inner, going outer to outer, tends to be more probmatic at least by bus/train. which leaves car or bike or rather it can do. How many people ride bike in London? The should be new annual figures out any time now - watch for a press release from Transport for London on their web site www.tfl.gov.uk. Last years figures estimate 480 000 journeys a day. I would guess that most people take around two journeys a day, rather than getting on the train with their bike to come home again. Whether this includes journeys to a train station, I don't know. Most London statistics count only the "main leg" of a journey, so riding to the station to catch a train might not be counted Give me a percentage to show. About 1.5% averaged over all London. Around 7% in Central London (roughly the congestion charge zone). The south western part of London seems to have a higher rate of cycling than average, nobody knows why. London is tending now to base its statistics on the automatic bike counters on the TLRN (Trunk London Road Network) Because of the nature of the TLRN this might lead to some undercounting in Outer London. has some big parks, bushy park and richmound together with the river and the mostly fairly narrow roads lends it's self to bike more than say the large freeways. quite a few use back roads etc, i will tend to go though bushy park than round it, something thats not usefully possible with the car, (the park has a road that connects teddington with hampton court but never really much use for me. Anyway, I'd rather ride a bike in London than in places where still the drivers ignore any civilized rules of the road. In America we have to tame the beast first. Having ridden many miles on both sides of th Altlantic, I would say that there is not much in it, though there are, of course, many places in the USA where I have not ridden (Chicago, for example). Civilized or not - that might depend on your definition of civilized, which doesn't always seem to be the same as everyone's on this newsgroup - I would say that there always are rules, and when you ride or bike, or are anywhere among other people, it's advisable to know what those rules are. I read the reviews of the book, but I'm sure even bullfighting can be done in a safe way if you know the tricks of the trade [snip] The moral of which, I take it, is to know the tricks of the trade. Buy a copy of "Effective Cycling" Jeremy Parker roger -- www.rogermerriman.com |
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