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A Sustrans dilemma



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 6th 05, 09:55 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

tom wrote:

Access gates are a difficult one. I agree entirely that they are a pain
with panniers, and in some cases may prevent a specific type of bicycle
from getting on to a path. However, they are there for a reason. I'd far
rather spend an extra 10 seconds getting onto and off a path than have to
contend with kids on motorbikes or other similar vehicles, racing up and
down the track.


If it were "an extra 10 seconds" you might have a good point, but in
practice you have to carry over them every time there's major access to
the path, which means getting on and off every mile or so in many places
IME.

And I'd sooner take my chances with the odd motorbike than keep having
to do that.

And beyond my personal feelings you have the fact that it closes off
access to the very groups who will most benefit. How is a tricycle
handcyclist meant to get their mount through these things?

Not asking for that, what I was suggesting that it was time it was
recognised and something done in the future.


But that doesn't help the "now", in which we have a major initiative
giving Joe and Jane public the idea that cycles don't belong on roads.

Sustrans have done and continue to do a lot of good, but that does not
excuse them from the downsides.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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  #22  
Old September 6th 05, 09:57 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

tom wrote:

Well I don't. I'm a CTC member, and I think their work is vital, but I
don't think they are aimed at the new cyclist. My perspective of the CTC
is that they are an organisation for supporting cyclists who are already
cycling, the very same people such as yourself who have the ability to
judge which path is a good one or not to use, and how to cycle safely on a
road.


I am a volunteer with Try Cycling Tayside, and the name should give you
a clue as to who they're aiming at. They provide training and "cycle
buddies" to get people onto bikes who don't have the confidence to do it
themselves. TCT is an initiative of the CTC, which suggests your
perspective is a little skewed.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #23  
Old September 6th 05, 10:00 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

tom wrote:

No, but they discourage them. If you are a kid on a motorbike and you see
a nice looking track coming straight off a road with nothing to stop you
getting on it, you're going to get on it - right? Where you can zoom
around to your hearts content without getting into trouble.


There's more than one form of preventative measure. A couple of coppers
could round up some example fodder quite easily, especially as once
you're on the lane there's no easy way off without abandoning your bike.
If the message becomes you /will/ get into trouble, with little hope
of escape if they do a sweep, I think the popularity would drop. And
people who use trikes won't get discriminated against.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #24  
Old September 6th 05, 10:09 AM
Simon Bennett
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

tom wrote:

an organisation which is
trying to encourage the use of the bicycle, and are very alone in
this quest.


coughCTC/cough


  #25  
Old September 6th 05, 10:09 AM
tom
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Default A Sustrans dilemma


And beyond my personal feelings you have the fact that it closes off
access to the very groups who will most benefit. How is a tricycle
handcyclist meant to get their mount through these things?


Agreed, this is the only argument against barriers which actually holds
any weight.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-barrier because I would much rather they
weren't there, I don't like them at all. But I understand why they are
there.

Not asking for that, what I was suggesting that it was time it was
recognised and something done in the future.


But that doesn't help the "now", in which we have a major initiative
giving Joe and Jane public the idea that cycles don't belong on roads.


I strongly disagree with this. I felt much more comfortable cycling on
roads after starting on off-road paths and it didn't give me the
impression that cycles don't belong on roads. How are Joe and Jane public
different from me?

  #26  
Old September 6th 05, 10:10 AM
David Martin
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Default A Sustrans dilemma


Peter Clinch wrote:
tom wrote:

No, but they discourage them. If you are a kid on a motorbike and you see
a nice looking track coming straight off a road with nothing to stop you
getting on it, you're going to get on it - right? Where you can zoom
around to your hearts content without getting into trouble.


There's more than one form of preventative measure. A couple of coppers
could round up some example fodder quite easily, especially as once
you're on the lane there's no easy way off without abandoning your bike.
If the message becomes you /will/ get into trouble, with little hope
of escape if they do a sweep, I think the popularity would drop. And
people who use trikes won't get discriminated against.


Or those with trailers (can't physically get a bike trailer onto the
off road section of NCN1 through tentsmuir, hard enough with the
trailer bike, and I'll be struggling with the tandem on Saturday
(taking #1 son to the airshow at Leuchars on Igor..)

Anti-motorbike barriers are no disincentive to joyriders. They know the
coppers can't get their cars or bikes onto them, but sporty M-cycles
are not a problem.

...d

  #27  
Old September 6th 05, 10:14 AM
Simon Bennett
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

tom wrote:

My perspective of the
CTC is that they are an organisation for supporting cyclists who are
already cycling


CTC runs many training courses teaching people the skills necessary to
handle a bike safely in everyday situations. It would be interesting to know
if Sustrans also provide such courses.


  #28  
Old September 6th 05, 10:15 AM
Simon Bennett
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

tom wrote:

How are Joe and Jane
public different from me?


They don't ride bikes.


  #29  
Old September 6th 05, 10:27 AM
Dave Larrington
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

Also sprach audrey :

This time last year I was a new cyclist. I didn't much enjoy riding
off road canal side paths with endless barriers then, either.


This time last year I wasn't a new cyclist but still didn't much enjoy
riding off road canal side paths with endless barriers either. There was
one on NCN1 where is was physically impossible to get my very ordinary
mountain bike through at all. Fortunately, /someone/ has had an attack of
common sense and taken most of them away. And, mirabile dictu, the feared
plague of motorbikeyminipikeys has totally failed to materialise.

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Better hide the pork scratchings...


  #30  
Old September 6th 05, 10:34 AM
iakobski
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

I frequently cycle up to Fakenham & my son does it foru times a
week during term time. We simply would not use the Sustrans route - it
goes
all over the place. Fine for a convoluted pootle on a Sunday afternoon,
but
as a transport network to get from A to B.

Your points are valid, but there are many balances to be struck. Of
course your son's not going to be happy on any route where he can't
maintain 35-40 km/h, and on a long regular journey like that it makes
sense to take a shorter route. He's also a competent and experienced
cyclist.

There are still compromises that we all make, and we choose routes
suitable for ourselves individually. Sustrans allows people with no
experience of choosing routes to start out, maybe some of them will
choose different roads later.

For example, I came to work on the main road this morning and it took
me 23 minutes, but it wasn't pleasant. Normally I use the back roads,
at the cost of an extra two miles and more hills, it takes me 32
minutes but I far prefer it. There's still a couple of major hazards
(blind summit, narrow bridges) but I have the confidence and experience
to deal with these properly. A less experienced cyclist would be
happier on a longer route with less traffic.

I disagree with the implementation of much of Sustrans, but they are
helping in some ways. A city route I used to use regularly has just had
lighting installed (shock horror, all the roads for cars have
lighting). After many emails one section has been resurfaced (I had a
long argument with the NCN officer, who seemed to think I was
unreasonable expecting to cycle at aver 12 mph. Lots of people use the
routes at the weekends. Some of them might progress to cycling for
transport too.

 




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