#21
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
Access gates are a difficult one. I agree entirely that they are a pain with panniers, and in some cases may prevent a specific type of bicycle from getting on to a path. However, they are there for a reason. I'd far rather spend an extra 10 seconds getting onto and off a path than have to contend with kids on motorbikes or other similar vehicles, racing up and down the track. If it were "an extra 10 seconds" you might have a good point, but in practice you have to carry over them every time there's major access to the path, which means getting on and off every mile or so in many places IME. And I'd sooner take my chances with the odd motorbike than keep having to do that. And beyond my personal feelings you have the fact that it closes off access to the very groups who will most benefit. How is a tricycle handcyclist meant to get their mount through these things? Not asking for that, what I was suggesting that it was time it was recognised and something done in the future. But that doesn't help the "now", in which we have a major initiative giving Joe and Jane public the idea that cycles don't belong on roads. Sustrans have done and continue to do a lot of good, but that does not excuse them from the downsides. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
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#22
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
Well I don't. I'm a CTC member, and I think their work is vital, but I don't think they are aimed at the new cyclist. My perspective of the CTC is that they are an organisation for supporting cyclists who are already cycling, the very same people such as yourself who have the ability to judge which path is a good one or not to use, and how to cycle safely on a road. I am a volunteer with Try Cycling Tayside, and the name should give you a clue as to who they're aiming at. They provide training and "cycle buddies" to get people onto bikes who don't have the confidence to do it themselves. TCT is an initiative of the CTC, which suggests your perspective is a little skewed. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#23
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
No, but they discourage them. If you are a kid on a motorbike and you see a nice looking track coming straight off a road with nothing to stop you getting on it, you're going to get on it - right? Where you can zoom around to your hearts content without getting into trouble. There's more than one form of preventative measure. A couple of coppers could round up some example fodder quite easily, especially as once you're on the lane there's no easy way off without abandoning your bike. If the message becomes you /will/ get into trouble, with little hope of escape if they do a sweep, I think the popularity would drop. And people who use trikes won't get discriminated against. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#24
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
an organisation which is trying to encourage the use of the bicycle, and are very alone in this quest. coughCTC/cough |
#25
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A Sustrans dilemma
And beyond my personal feelings you have the fact that it closes off access to the very groups who will most benefit. How is a tricycle handcyclist meant to get their mount through these things? Agreed, this is the only argument against barriers which actually holds any weight. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-barrier because I would much rather they weren't there, I don't like them at all. But I understand why they are there. Not asking for that, what I was suggesting that it was time it was recognised and something done in the future. But that doesn't help the "now", in which we have a major initiative giving Joe and Jane public the idea that cycles don't belong on roads. I strongly disagree with this. I felt much more comfortable cycling on roads after starting on off-road paths and it didn't give me the impression that cycles don't belong on roads. How are Joe and Jane public different from me? |
#26
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A Sustrans dilemma
Peter Clinch wrote: tom wrote: No, but they discourage them. If you are a kid on a motorbike and you see a nice looking track coming straight off a road with nothing to stop you getting on it, you're going to get on it - right? Where you can zoom around to your hearts content without getting into trouble. There's more than one form of preventative measure. A couple of coppers could round up some example fodder quite easily, especially as once you're on the lane there's no easy way off without abandoning your bike. If the message becomes you /will/ get into trouble, with little hope of escape if they do a sweep, I think the popularity would drop. And people who use trikes won't get discriminated against. Or those with trailers (can't physically get a bike trailer onto the off road section of NCN1 through tentsmuir, hard enough with the trailer bike, and I'll be struggling with the tandem on Saturday (taking #1 son to the airshow at Leuchars on Igor..) Anti-motorbike barriers are no disincentive to joyriders. They know the coppers can't get their cars or bikes onto them, but sporty M-cycles are not a problem. ...d |
#27
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
My perspective of the CTC is that they are an organisation for supporting cyclists who are already cycling CTC runs many training courses teaching people the skills necessary to handle a bike safely in everyday situations. It would be interesting to know if Sustrans also provide such courses. |
#28
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
How are Joe and Jane public different from me? They don't ride bikes. |
#29
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A Sustrans dilemma
Also sprach audrey :
This time last year I was a new cyclist. I didn't much enjoy riding off road canal side paths with endless barriers then, either. This time last year I wasn't a new cyclist but still didn't much enjoy riding off road canal side paths with endless barriers either. There was one on NCN1 where is was physically impossible to get my very ordinary mountain bike through at all. Fortunately, /someone/ has had an attack of common sense and taken most of them away. And, mirabile dictu, the feared plague of motorbikeyminipikeys has totally failed to materialise. -- Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ Better hide the pork scratchings... |
#30
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A Sustrans dilemma
I frequently cycle up to Fakenham & my son does it foru times a
week during term time. We simply would not use the Sustrans route - it goes all over the place. Fine for a convoluted pootle on a Sunday afternoon, but as a transport network to get from A to B. Your points are valid, but there are many balances to be struck. Of course your son's not going to be happy on any route where he can't maintain 35-40 km/h, and on a long regular journey like that it makes sense to take a shorter route. He's also a competent and experienced cyclist. There are still compromises that we all make, and we choose routes suitable for ourselves individually. Sustrans allows people with no experience of choosing routes to start out, maybe some of them will choose different roads later. For example, I came to work on the main road this morning and it took me 23 minutes, but it wasn't pleasant. Normally I use the back roads, at the cost of an extra two miles and more hills, it takes me 32 minutes but I far prefer it. There's still a couple of major hazards (blind summit, narrow bridges) but I have the confidence and experience to deal with these properly. A less experienced cyclist would be happier on a longer route with less traffic. I disagree with the implementation of much of Sustrans, but they are helping in some ways. A city route I used to use regularly has just had lighting installed (shock horror, all the roads for cars have lighting). After many emails one section has been resurfaced (I had a long argument with the NCN officer, who seemed to think I was unreasonable expecting to cycle at aver 12 mph. Lots of people use the routes at the weekends. Some of them might progress to cycling for transport too. |
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