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  #161  
Old May 29th 20, 05:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,747
Default Fun with exponents

Eric Pozharski writes:

with John B wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:44:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 5/28/2020 3:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/28/2020 11:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/28/2020 10:21 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2020 9:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2020 4:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2020 2:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2020 1:43 PM, wrote:


*SKIP*
It's interesting to me that I hear only about an American fringe
contingent skeptics; and that they tend to spout rationales plucked
from American right-wing media. Maybe our posters from other countries
can comment on any "resistance" groups in their countries?


Well, grouping (maybe "clustering" is better term) is what I observe for
couple of years now. It's more organized though (if I may) -- one
leader, maybe couple sub-leaders (I'm quite ignorant though, sorry --
not involved), and group of peons (or simpletons, if I may). Together
they form an echo chamber and happily re-enforce themseves. Occasionaly
peons attempt recruitment -- get either 'yeah-totally' (in fact
'yeah-whatever', but peons ignore that subtle difference) and with time
(and no effort) gather new-comers; or 'STFU-thats-not-how-it-works'
(that would be me, but I'm doing my bloody-cyclist thing here) and learn
not to try again. Leaders and sub-leaders are more time consuming --
they are obliged to work and have no option to stop.

80% lockdown (relaxing is in progress), what was and wasn't lockdowned
is complicated (not going TL;DR here) -- all education, daycare,
whatever gatherings, 95% of local public transport, all inter-city
transport; restrictions on various forms of consumer goods'
dispenseries were complicated. Easter was both hilarious and showing,
to say the least. Construction is OK but without public transport it's
strange. Central government utterly incompetent (and full of peons).
Local government -- more responsible (because people are here) and
utterly incapable (because full of peons, corruption, and central
government). It's complicated.

In essence, people just made it throught all by themselves. And now The
Lockdown is going, The Grand Opening is coming, central government is...
blah-blah-blah. It's fascinating.

*SKIP*
As an aside, color coordinated face masks are now quite the rage among
the fairer sex :-) I bought my wife several but she complained that
they didn't match her dresses :-( -- cheers,


Just now did people-watching -- totaly a thing here too.


Apparently a thing for (some) dudes as well:

https://nypost.com/2020/05/22/nyc-ta...f-the-shelves/

Etsy.com is booming with cottage-made masks.
Ads
  #162  
Old May 29th 20, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,747
Default Fun with exponents

AMuzi writes:

On 5/29/2020 10:09 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 6:28:55 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 17:52:39 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/27/2020 3:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 18:56:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
Bicycle related drivel:
Water bottle fail. I grabbed it, and the now brittle plastic
crumbled. My guess(tm) is it was 30 years old. Argh.
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/water%20bottle%20fail.html

Blank page. So much for bibycle related content. I updated my photo
album software from Jalbum 20.0 to the latest 20.1. I also added the
above photo. The new and improved release did some odd things and
took far too long to coplete the upload. The next morning, I
discovered that all the photos on my web pile were gone. I have
backups, but until I put the mess back together, no photos. Sorry.

I saw it yesterday.

I also saw it yesterday. It was coming out of some manner of web
cache and not directly from the 1and1.com server. Hard to tell what's
happening as Shodan shows a weird server name:
74-208-236-55.elastic-ssl.ui-r.com
https://www.ip-tracker.org/locator/ip-lookup.php?ip=74-208-236-133.elastic-ssl.ui-r.com
Anyway, when the cache flushed overnight, all my photos went with it.
I'm resisting the temptation to completely change the structure of
the web site, but suspect it will be necessary anyway.

Typical outgassed polymer failure.

Thanks. The bottom of the bottle says it's LDPE (low-density
polyethylene) and was made in 1992 (28 years old). I've seen plastic
crumble, but not quite the way this bottle decided to crumble. Google
couldn't find anything useful under "outgassed polymer failure". Could
you point me to a web page where I can read about it? I've never seen
anything crumble this badly and I'm curious as to the failure
mechanism. (If you're busy, don't bother).

--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Jeff, surely you're not worried about a $2 item that was long past
its useful life since these things are degraded by UV light and you
ride a lot in the sunshine?



Tom don't be such an ass.
Intellectual curiosity is plenty enough reason. Would you have told
Newton to sit under some other type of tree?


I'm guessing he was sitting under a tree because the public houses were
all closed, there being a plague and all. Could be some physics
breakthroughs percolating in some minds even now.
  #163  
Old May 29th 20, 06:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Fun with exponents

On Fri, 29 May 2020 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Why would you have the least curiosity about the failure of a
polyethylene container after nearly 20 years of often exposure
to UV?


Perhaps because this is a technical newsgroup, and not a political
forum? I'm told that most important discoveries start with someone
doing something ordinary, noticing that the results were not what was
expected, and often saying "That's odd".

It isn't as if this sort of failure is unusual.


Oddly, I haven't seen it before with HDPE. Usually, the plastic
becomes less flexible and eventually breaks. However, this bottle
crumbled when I touched it, with very little force applied.

Take a like bottle and leave in out on a table in direct sunlight
for one summer and it will do the same thing.


Incidentally, when I used to design marine radios, we would put
samples of the plastic parts on the roof for extended periods and
watch them deteriorate. I was there for 9 years and saw quite a few
failures. Later, I analyzed the type of failure from cross section
cuts, some polish, and a microscope. UV embitterment doesn't go very
deep and really only affects the surface. I haven't looked at the
pieces yet, but at first glance, the damage is all the way through the
plastic. To be fair, most of the plastic I dealt with was ABC or some
kind of styrene derivative, which acts differently from HDPE. Also,
plastics that were either silk screened black or included a graphite
filler to provide UV protection, lasted much longer. So, if you want
your HDPE water bottle to last, buy one that's black.

Drivel: I had an experiment to test the effects of sunlight on a
Teflon tape and a PVC tape covering for antenna and coaxial cable
connectors on my roof for about 20 years. It worked fairly well, but
the experiment was cut short when a tree fell on my experiment:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Storm-Damage-2011-12-03/



--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #164  
Old May 29th 20, 06:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Posts: 1,563
Default Fun with exponents

On 29/05/2020 17.06, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/29/2020 10:09 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 6:28:55 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 17:52:39 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/27/2020 3:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 18:56:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
Bicycle related drivel:
Water bottle fail.Â* I grabbed it, and the now brittle plastic
crumbled.Â* My guess(tm) is it was 30 years old.Â* Argh.
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/water%20bottle%20fail.html


Blank page.Â* So much for bibycle related content.Â* I updated my photo
album software from Jalbum 20.0 to the latest 20.1.Â* I also added the
above photo.Â* The new and improved release did some odd things and
took far too long to coplete the upload.Â* The next morning, I
discovered that all the photos on my web pile were gone.Â* I have
backups, but until I put the mess back together, no photos.Â* Sorry.

I saw it yesterday.

I also saw it yesterday.Â* It was coming out of some manner of web
cache and not directly from the 1and1.com server.Â* Hard to tell what's
happening as Shodan shows a weird server name:
74-208-236-55.elastic-ssl.ui-r.com
https://www.ip-tracker.org/locator/ip-lookup.php?ip=74-208-236-133.elastic-ssl.ui-r.com

Anyway, when the cache flushed overnight, all my photos went with it.
I'm resisting the temptation to completely change the structure of
the web site, but suspect it will be necessary anyway.

Typical outgassed polymer failure.

Thanks.Â* The bottom of the bottle says it's LDPE (low-density
polyethylene) and was made in 1992 (28 years old).Â* I've seen plastic
crumble, but not quite the way this bottle decided to crumble.Â* Google
couldn't find anything useful under "outgassed polymer failure". Could
you point me to a web page where I can read about it?Â* I've never seen
anything crumble this badly and I'm curious as to the failure
mechanism.Â* (If you're busy, don't bother).

--
Jeff LiebermannÂ*Â*Â*Â*

150 Felker St #DÂ*Â*Â*
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermannÂ*Â*Â*Â* AE6KSÂ*Â*Â* 831-336-2558


Jeff, surely you're not worried about a $2 item that was long past its
useful life since these things are degraded by UV light and you ride a
lot in the sunshine?



Tom don't be such an ass.
Intellectual curiosity is plenty enough reason. Would you have told
Newton to sit under some other type of tree?


Wouldn't have worked with a spaghetti tree, too much drag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU

  #167  
Old May 29th 20, 08:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Fun with exponents

On Fri, 29 May 2020 19:58:58 +0100, Tosspot
wrote:

On 29/05/2020 18.23, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2020 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Why would you have the least curiosity about the failure of a
polyethylene container after nearly 20 years of often exposure
to UV?


Perhaps because this is a technical newsgroup, and not a political
forum? I'm told that most important discoveries start with someone
doing something ordinary, noticing that the results were not what was
expected, and often saying "That's odd".


Often trying to develop something else, Post-It notes, superglue, and
who could forget Viagra, all spring to mind.


In the distant past, I was going to write an article on the topic of
unintentional inventions. Someone suggested I turn it into a book, so
I expanded the project. I had collected a fairly substantial number
of examples but was far from having sufficient material for even a
small book. This was long before the internet, so my material came
from various libraries, technical papers, and magazines and my work
was produced on a typewriter. After about 5 years of work on the
book, my potential publisher changed his mind, I changed professions,
my unpaid assistants move away, and I was getting tired of the whole
idea. I was told that someone else published a book on the same
topic. So, I gave up. I still have most of the material in two
bankers boxes, somewhere, maybe.

It's more than those you mentioned. Artificial sweeteners, Gunn diode
oscillators, Edison effect, Goodyear rubber, and numerous drugs and
medicines. They all have one thing in common. The discoverer was a
far better observer than he or she was a scientist or engineer. The
"That's odd" statement appears quite often. In many cases, the
discoverer was not even trying to invent anything and the discovery or
invention was just a side effect of whatever he was being paid to do.
The worst way to discover something new is to form a research team,
focus group, or design committee, where management and the other
members of the team will do their best to redirect attention to their
vision of the intended goal and away from any interesting diversions.

For most of my life, I've spent considerable effort paying attention
to what is happening around me. When I see something odd,
interesting, or unexplainable, I like to investigate. This has
infuriated employers, but has also resulted in some very useful
improvements to their products, production methods, user interfaces,
packaging, and other things which they were NOT paying me to do.

Anyway, enough of my ranting. Duty calls. I'm off to fix an exercise
machine that vaguely resembles a bicycle.



--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #169  
Old May 29th 20, 11:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Fun with exponents

On Fri, 29 May 2020 07:59:35 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 4:17:13 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 2:32:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 12:36:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2020 1:43 PM,
wrote:

Only someone in a financially secure position could ignore the pain and suffering of people whose source of income has been cut off...

Only a person who has no friend or family infected or seriously at risk
could ignore the pain and suffering of those with COVID.

... for no reasons whatsoever.

That's the view of a person with zero qualifications, despite strong
disagreement from qualified experts in every country worldwide.

On a clear day you couldn't see beyond you nose.

Before ANY of the shouting is done, the CDC has already reduced the numbers of covid-19 deaths by 25%. This isn't going to stop here since other CDC studies show that the chances of someone that has covid-19 AND SYNPTOMS (only 25% of those with the disease) have a 0.05% chance of dying. It is a pity that you mind doesn't work anymore. All you have left is bitter hatred for those that point it out.


It's a pity that you don't understand disease prevention versus post hoc death statistics. Restrictions were imposed to prevent the spread of a disease with bad track record. Remember Wuhan, burial pits in Iran, Italy?

The only way you could say that the restrictions were unnecessary is: (1) define an acceptable number of sick and/or dead, and (2) know in advance the number of sick and/or dead if no restrictions were imposed, and then compare the two numbers. If we know that 250,000 will die if no restrictions are imposed, and we're O.K. with that number, then the restrictions are/were unnecessary. If we think 250,000 is too many (or whatever the best projection showed), then we impose restrictions, and try to tailor them to do the most good and least harm.

You can't impose restrictions and then claim that they were unnecessary because they worked.

-- Jay Beattie.


The real pity is that you are in total agreement that the government in the hands of the CDC's visual arm at the covid-19 briefings should pass out patently false information. I have shown you that there are no more deaths than last year at this time and you pretend that there is this killer virus on the loose that requires the destruction of the American economy to protect ourselves from. I have explained that masks and social distancing are useless inside of a building such as a grocery store which most normal people need attend and that outside it is unnecessary but you cannot understand that since you are like a trained seal and bow to authority despite their changing their stories 180 degrees over and over. That you are a fool of needs doesn't make everyone else one.


You have shown.... ? and who are you? A qualified medical doctor or
perhaps a scientist specializing in virus?

Or simply a poorly educated buffoon with no real knowledge of medicine
and,or science?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #170  
Old May 29th 20, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Fun with exponents

On Fri, 29 May 2020 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:30:53 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 6:04:58 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

Further to my last reply, I am not an expert. I do not work
in relevant fields nor read much beyond general coverage and
Science News.


Science? What you want science for? "Science" says we're all already burnt to a frazzle in the global warming.

However, confidence in CDC (and most Governors) is lacking
out here among the population of punished innocents:

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horow...e-is-the-media

Journalists are all "scientists" too. It is in the interest of the Donkey Party to ramp up the media's hysterical fear-mongering, so the media as the publicity department of the Donkey Party are pleased to call themselves, irresponsibly ramp up the fear. Compare the way the media has thugged on Ron de Santis of Florida, by an objective account a very successful governor in these dangerous times, with the way they have idolized Andrew Cuomo, whose cruel (and stupid, and criminal) decisions aggravated matters in New York State. (I'm not even talking about Mayor de Blasio, whose incompetence is murderous.)

I understand that government employees relaxing at home with
full pay and retirees have a much less urgent interest than
people running out of resources right now.


I'm used to sitting in an elegant if somewhat dusty room (I subscribe to the Sherlock Holmes theory of filing -- I know from the depth of the dust on a stack of papers how urgent they must be) starting at a bare (well, actually wallpapered in restful Regency browny-pink stripes with a polished picture rail) or out of the window at the magpies squabbling in the eucalyptus trees. I didn't even notice the first lockdown until it was two weeks in and my wife mentioned it to me when I offered to take her to lunch at a fave restaurant. The police and the Red Cross bring our medicines (and the pharmacy staff anyway picked up prescriptions and delivered medicines before the Wuhan Virus; just another service they offer), the shops we always patronized bring our groceries as they always did, and we hardly notice that there's a problem.

But I'm an economist as well as an artist, and a valid question arises: Considering that the majority of the victims of the Wuhan Virus were elderly and presumably out of the workforce, and that dumb political decisions like Governor Cuomo stuffing sick people back into rest homes, aggravated their chances of dying of the virus, was the lockdown warranted? That is, would the hospitals really have been overwhelmed? If the answer is yes, then no lockdown could easily have led to much larger economic damage -- ask yourself the economic value of an orderly society, which you clearly lose at some point in an out-of-control pandemic. So, the economic damage without a lockdown could have been larger. Emphasis on *could*. That must be weighed against this: without the economic damage of any lockdown (or one starting earlier or later, and for shorter or longer), how many more old people would have died, short of the total breakdown of society I
described earlier in this paragraph? That's the sort of awful and awesome decision democracies elect their chief executives to take.* The present operating conditions of decision-makers is the starkest reminder you can imagine of the historical reality that economics isn't a science (as the mathematical branches insist), but a specialized branch of philosophy.

Good luck with sorting out the reasonable reality from the politics that has since the beginning bedeviled even hard counts, never mind speculative points such as those I just raised.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Andre Jute
Just as well Mr Trump is a man of action rather than being given to overly much cogitation -- personally, if I were President, I'd hightail it to Canada or England or Australia and offer to be Prime Minister, because their collective-Cabinet-responsibility shares the blame for any decisions in such a loss-loss situation.


Several years ago there was an especially heavy Arctic ice extent. Since these things are cyclic it shouldn't surprise anyone. But there appeared a strong southerly wind that is somewhat unusual. This blew the icepack a mile offshore and immediately the "environmentalists" flocked to the Alaskan northern shore and began taking pictures which they have ever since used to "prove" that global warming is real and exists. How they thought that they could get away with turning a near record ice extent into a total lack of ice in the Arctic ocean only they know. But the public in general didn't fall for it but the articles in Science News have gotten more and more shrill. I think that it was just this last winter they announced that Svalsberg, Norway, was ice free for the first winter on record. Perhaps they should have consulted with the Svalsberg authorities since they had almost record depths of ice there and for the first time in many years could not get off of the island by sea.

I have come to the conclusion that science has died. My wife was a teacher and yesterday she started reading a Tarzan novel from the 1930's. She said that she seriously doubts that people under the age of 40 could even read it. The English is so proper, the grammar so correct that even she has to read every word and not skim them like she does most paperbacks these days.

Watched Funny Girl the other night. This was so phony and belittled reality that one has to wonder why this film was ever made. Fanny Brice was a huckster and she was married before her boyfriend the con artist. Together they attempted to work many cons. Her third husband was Billy Rose the producer and gay guy.

Wouldn't an account of Queen Elizabeth have been far more romantic?

I don't know about you but I have had it with Hollywood gays promoting immorality because they recognize that if they can make it common they wouldn't be criticized as much.

Consider this - 40% of the economy of the "shelter in place" states has disappeared and will take years to recover. This drives the suicide rates up. Paul Ehrlich, a moronic and virtually criminally insane, tenured professor at Stanford in the 1980's was promoting putting sterility agents into reservoirs and poison into food supplies sent to third world countries in order to control what he termed "The Population Bomb". Isn't this virtually the same thing?


Of course it is, you fool. It is the Yellow Buffoon in the White House
trying to eliminate all the Democrats so he can be re-elected.
(and it's taken you all these months to realize it)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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