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Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 3rd 20, 06:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
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Posts: 385
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

sms wrote:
On 5/3/2020 9:03 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/30/2020 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
Just had a Kenda thorn-resistant tube fail. It lost pressure suddenly
and overnight without being ridden the day before. It started to split
along a factory seam. This seems to happen ever since they started
making them less than the usual 3mm thick towards the rim.

Does anyone know who still makes the real stuff, 3mm thick all around?
Or maybe another good version thorn-resistant tube? I am running 700c
25mm tires with an additional tire liner in there. Might go to 28mm in
back some day.

The only time I ever lost 3mm all-around tubes was upon violent tire
blow-outs (sidewall failure).

Your problem is not with the tubes, it's with the tires. What you want
is Schwalbe Marathon Plus HS 440 11100766.01 700C x 25. But beware that
the protection layer adds some height to the tire and it may not fit on
all road bicycles with caliper brakes.



I’d tend to agree though as ever others choices is theirs alone and some
folks like to furrow their own path!

This said in terms of vs thorns I’ve not found the plus useful, as though
it is fairly thick 5mm or so it’s also quite soft so if something does
penetrate the tyre it can work it’s way down, though this was with Hawthorn
which is a different shape ie long shard rather than well the Goats head,
which I’d assume would stop it from keeping going?

At which point for the Plain Marathon plus the depth of tread/tyre and
length of the Goats Head thorn is very close!

I’d thought that Marathon Plus Touring which I used for a year or so would
be a better fit, much more tread and very robust tyres, huge service life
as well.

I did switch them out to BigApples as well the ride was appalling! And bar
2x that I’d had Hawthorn after it had been shredded just manage to push
though. Everything else just ie thorns/glass/shards etc just embedded its
self in the tread harmlessly.

And thus far just over a year 4K miles or so barely any wear, I’ve picked
out the odd shard but nothing has made it though.

Roger Merriman


Well the Big Apple is a much less expensive tire, I've even seen it as
the stock tire on some new bicycles, though it's better than the cheap
Kenda tires that seem to end up on a lot of lower end new bikes.


There is two K-guard which is very cheap and cheerful, and the race guard
which also is sold in more variety the K I’d assume is most OEM. The race
guard big Apple and Marathon Plus both can be got for £30 ish depends on
what size and so on.

For rolling resistance Schwalbe rates the Big Apple and the Marathon
Plus the same, 3.5 out of 5. Surprised you thought the ride on the Big
Apple was appalling. Or were you saying the opposite? I have the
Marathon Plus on several bikes and don't notice a difference between
them and the previous tires.

I have had the plus on quite a few bikes, compared to most they have a
rather rigid wooden feeling, the Marathon plus Touring is much more so, and
this is exasperated when the bike is loaded up.

The Big Apples by contrast have a much more supple ride and smooth out the
broken tarmac/gravel tracks that make up my commute and make the bike feel
a lot more comfortable, it’s probably no faster but it feels a lot more
lively this is though vs the Touring.

Roger Merriman







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  #12  
Old May 3rd 20, 07:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

On 2020-05-02 19:10, sms wrote:
On 4/30/2020 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
Just had a Kenda thorn-resistant tube fail. It lost pressure suddenly
and overnight without being ridden the day before. It started to split
along a factory seam. This seems to happen ever since they started
making them less than the usual 3mm thick towards the rim.

Does anyone know who still makes the real stuff, 3mm thick all around?
Or maybe another good version thorn-resistant tube? I am running 700c
25mm tires with an additional tire liner in there. Might go to 28mm in
back some day.

The only time I ever lost 3mm all-around tubes was upon violent tire
blow-outs (sidewall failure).


Your problem is not with the tubes, it's with the tires. What you want
is Schwalbe Marathon Plus HS 440 11100766.01 700C x 25.



https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...0c-tire-hs-440

Fifty bucks a tire? No! I bet those don't last much past 2000mi either
and then that's too much money. If they'd last 5000mi it would be ok.

In fact, the blowouts were mostly with expensive brand name tires,
Continental Gatorskin. Never had one with Vee Rubber or Vittoria, so
far. I get between 1200mi and 2000mi out of these depending on where I
ride. Mostly less than 1500mi but at about $15 a pop that's ok.


... But beware that
the protection layer adds some height to the tire and it may not fit on
all road bicycles with caliper brakes.


Weight is the least of my concerns or no concern at all. I just want
stuff not to fail during rides. So all my bikes have tire liners plus
thorn-resistant tubes. The MTB has a regular tube around the tire liner
in addition. Rides like a tank, and no flats.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #13  
Old May 3rd 20, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

On 5/3/2020 11:06 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

Fifty bucks a tire? No! I bet those don't last much past 2000mi either
and then that's too much money. If they'd last 5000mi it would be ok.


Yes, they are quite expensive though you can sometimes find them on sale
for a lot less than that.

In fact, the blowouts were mostly with expensive brand name tires,
Continental Gatorskin. Never had one with Vee Rubber or Vittoria, so
far. I get between 1200mi and 2000mi out of these depending on where I
ride. Mostly less than 1500mi but at about $15 a pop that's ok.


I wouldn't base the thorn resistance on the price of tire, it's the
design of the tire.

My main concern in switching mostly to the Marathon Plus was that
neither me, nor my wife, experience failures on rides. A little extra
weight was of little concern. She would have no idea how to fix or
replace a tube on her commute. I would be called for emergency road
service. On my Dahon folder, it's a real pain to fix a puncture.

On Friday I donated about 20 tires, some new, to the local non-profit
bicycle shop, Good Karma Bikes. I'd been cleaning my garage of all the
stuff I've accumulated over the years.

Weight is the least of my concerns or no concern at all. I just want
stuff not to fail during rides. So all my bikes have tire liners plus
thorn-resistant tubes. The MTB has a regular tube around the tire liner
in addition. Rides like a tank, and no flats.


I've not had good luck with tire liners. They end up causing a puncture
where the two end meet up, even when following the instructions on how
to trim the ends.



  #14  
Old May 3rd 20, 09:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,747
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 5/3/2020 12:03 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/30/2020 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
Just had a Kenda thorn-resistant tube fail. It lost pressure suddenly
and overnight without being ridden the day before. It started to split
along a factory seam. This seems to happen ever since they started
making them less than the usual 3mm thick towards the rim.

Does anyone know who still makes the real stuff, 3mm thick all around?
Or maybe another good version thorn-resistant tube? I am running 700c
25mm tires with an additional tire liner in there. Might go to 28mm in
back some day.

The only time I ever lost 3mm all-around tubes was upon violent tire
blow-outs (sidewall failure).

Your problem is not with the tubes, it's with the tires. What you want
is Schwalbe Marathon Plus HS 440 11100766.01 700C x 25. But beware that
the protection layer adds some height to the tire and it may not fit on
all road bicycles with caliper brakes.



I’d tend to agree though as ever others choices is theirs alone and some
folks like to furrow their own path!

This said in terms of vs thorns I’ve not found the plus useful, as though
it is fairly thick 5mm or so it’s also quite soft so if something does
penetrate the tyre it can work it’s way down, though this was with Hawthorn
which is a different shape ie long shard rather than well the Goats head,
which I’d assume would stop it from keeping going?

At which point for the Plain Marathon plus the depth of tread/tyre and
length of the Goats Head thorn is very close!

I’d thought that Marathon Plus Touring which I used for a year or so would
be a better fit, much more tread and very robust tyres, huge service life
as well.

I did switch them out to BigApples as well the ride was appalling! And bar
2x that I’d had Hawthorn after it had been shredded just manage to push
though. Everything else just ie thorns/glass/shards etc just embedded its
self in the tread harmlessly.

And thus far just over a year 4K miles or so barely any wear, I’ve picked
out the odd shard but nothing has made it though.


After reading here about the horrors of goat head thorns, I was very
worried before doing some rides or a tour out west. But we never had
one goat head flat.

I know my bicycling life is charmed (um, knock wood; or give thanks to
La Madonna del Ghisallo and St. Christopher).

But I wonder if I was just lucky, or if I was not riding in goat head
areas, or if my lack of flats was due to my tendency to ride away from
the road's edge.

Car tires do sweep roads clean.


I grew up in the land of the goat head, and learned early that riding on dirt
paths and cutoffs was likely to result in a flat. Riding on asphalt was
generally not a problem, although I recall having more flats then than I
do now.



--
  #15  
Old May 3rd 20, 09:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

Roger Merriman writes:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/3/2020 12:03 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 4/30/2020 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
Just had a Kenda thorn-resistant tube fail. It lost pressure suddenly
and overnight without being ridden the day before. It started to split
along a factory seam. This seems to happen ever since they started
making them less than the usual 3mm thick towards the rim.

Does anyone know who still makes the real stuff, 3mm thick all around?
Or maybe another good version thorn-resistant tube? I am running 700c
25mm tires with an additional tire liner in there. Might go to 28mm in
back some day.

The only time I ever lost 3mm all-around tubes was upon violent tire
blow-outs (sidewall failure).

Your problem is not with the tubes, it's with the tires. What you want
is Schwalbe Marathon Plus HS 440 11100766.01 700C x 25. But beware that
the protection layer adds some height to the tire and it may not fit on
all road bicycles with caliper brakes.



I’d tend to agree though as ever others choices is theirs alone and some
folks like to furrow their own path!

This said in terms of vs thorns I’ve not found the plus useful, as though
it is fairly thick 5mm or so it’s also quite soft so if something does
penetrate the tyre it can work it’s way down, though this was with Hawthorn
which is a different shape ie long shard rather than well the Goats head,
which I’d assume would stop it from keeping going?

At which point for the Plain Marathon plus the depth of tread/tyre and
length of the Goats Head thorn is very close!

I’d thought that Marathon Plus Touring which I used for a year or so would
be a better fit, much more tread and very robust tyres, huge service life
as well.

I did switch them out to BigApples as well the ride was appalling! And bar
2x that I’d had Hawthorn after it had been shredded just manage to push
though. Everything else just ie thorns/glass/shards etc just embedded its
self in the tread harmlessly.

And thus far just over a year 4K miles or so barely any wear, I’ve picked
out the odd shard but nothing has made it though.


After reading here about the horrors of goat head thorns, I was very
worried before doing some rides or a tour out west. But we never had one
goat head flat.

I know my bicycling life is charmed (um, knock wood; or give thanks to
La Madonna del Ghisallo and St. Christopher).

But I wonder if I was just lucky, or if I was not riding in goat head
areas, or if my lack of flats was due to my tendency to ride away from
the road's edge.

Car tires do sweep roads clean.

They seem to like disturbed land or rather reported, apparently it’s well
distributed across the world but likes dry land.

Which means I probably have seen them in either Spain/France or Australia
on scrub land. Though would have different names as is the way of the
world!


Tribulus terrestis, my old friend, is apparently native to southern
Europe, so I imagine you have seen them. You would never forget having
stepped on them without shoes (with rubber soles you would later find
them embedded). Low lying plants with small yellow flowers, often, as
you say, in disturbed ground, such as roadsides.

  #16  
Old May 3rd 20, 10:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

On 5/3/2020 1:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

snip

I grew up in the land of the goat head, and learned early that riding on dirt
paths and cutoffs was likely to result in a flat. Riding on asphalt was
generally not a problem, although I recall having more flats then than I
do now.


We have creek near me where the access road is about to become a
multi-use trail. It's full of goat heads. It is going to end up being paved.

Tomorrow our Public Works employees return from administrative leave and
none too soon. There's one tree that's right on my route to City Hall
that unfortunately no panel trucks knock down the low hanging branches
and there are branches at head level.
  #17  
Old May 3rd 20, 11:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

On 5/3/2020 5:48 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/3/2020 1:26 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

snip

I grew up in the land of the goat head, and learned early that riding
on dirt
paths and cutoffs was likely to result in a flat.Â* Riding on asphalt was
generally not a problem, although I recall having more flats then than I
do now.


We have creek near me where the access road is about to become a
multi-use trail. It's full of goat heads. It is going to end up being
paved.

Tomorrow our Public Works employees return from administrative leave and
none too soon. There's one tree that's right on my route to City Hall
that unfortunately no panel trucks knock down the low hanging branches
and there are branches at head level.


Mayor Scharf will pretend not to see this response of mine, but:

Just how incompetent does a city administration have to be to leave
damaging tree branches hanging just six feet over a road or a multi-use
path? And if it's a road, do motorists not complain, since many vehicles
(e.g. Cadillac Escalades) are that tall?

During the past year, I came across something similar precisely once, on
a lightly used MUP. A tree, roughly 8" trunk, had blown over and was
leaning over the MUP. If a person rode near one edge of the MUP, they
could have hit their head. The other edge had plenty of clearance.

Two points:

1) I was riding with a friend at night. My StVZO headlight alerted me to
the hazard.

2) Someone - I assume maintenance crews - soon cleared the hazard.

It doesn't require a lot of competence to do that.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old May 3rd 20, 11:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

Joerg wrote:
On 2020-05-02 19:10, sms wrote:
On 4/30/2020 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
Just had a Kenda thorn-resistant tube fail. It lost pressure suddenly
and overnight without being ridden the day before. It started to split
along a factory seam. This seems to happen ever since they started
making them less than the usual 3mm thick towards the rim.

Does anyone know who still makes the real stuff, 3mm thick all around?
Or maybe another good version thorn-resistant tube? I am running 700c
25mm tires with an additional tire liner in there. Might go to 28mm in
back some day.

The only time I ever lost 3mm all-around tubes was upon violent tire
blow-outs (sidewall failure).


Your problem is not with the tubes, it's with the tires. What you want
is Schwalbe Marathon Plus HS 440 11100766.01 700C x 25.



https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...0c-tire-hs-440

Fifty bucks a tire? No! I bet those don't last much past 2000mi either
and then that's too much money. If they'd last 5000mi it would be ok.


Marathons be they plus or not are famously durable, being touring tyres I
changed out the Marathon plus Touring at 8K they had just about worn in, ie
barely detectable wear.

I swapped them out since I noticed that the ride was very harsh and that
nothing seem to penetrate the tread plenty of embedded shards etc, Thus far
the Big Apples have done 4K with little sign of wear I’d expect to at least
double that.

In fact, the blowouts were mostly with expensive brand name tires,
Continental Gatorskin. Never had one with Vee Rubber or Vittoria, so
far. I get between 1200mi and 2000mi out of these depending on where I
ride. Mostly less than 1500mi but at about $15 a pop that's ok.


... But beware that
the protection layer adds some height to the tire and it may not fit on
all road bicycles with caliper brakes.


Weight is the least of my concerns or no concern at all. I just want
stuff not to fail during rides. So all my bikes have tire liners plus
thorn-resistant tubes. The MTB has a regular tube around the tire liner
in addition. Rides like a tank, and no flats.

On the commute bike it’s not weight after all I’m lugging kit back and
fore, but it’s a more ride quality, which is twofold 1st much less harsh
ride particularly if loaded, 2nd bike is much more fun, on days can even if
fully loaded have some fun.

Roger Merriman


  #20  
Old May 5th 20, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

James writes:

On 4/5/20 2:26 am, wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 6:16:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



After reading here about the horrors of goat head thorns, I was very
worried before doing some rides or a tour out west. But we never had one
goat head flat.

I know my bicycling life is charmed (um, knock wood; or give thanks to
La Madonna del Ghisallo and St. Christopher).

But I wonder if I was just lucky, or if I was not riding in goat head
areas, or if my lack of flats was due to my tendency to ride away from
the road's edge.

Car tires do sweep roads clean.


It was pure luck or the time of the year.


I would say Frank improved his chances of not getting a goat head
thorn puncture by riding further from the edge.


True, particularly since goat heads are likely to be growing right on
the verge of the asphalt.

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the left
(right in the US) of the fog line. I avoid riding there, especially
in wet weather. I seem to lead a charmed life regarding punctures.
It's more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase than suffer a
puncture, where I live now.


I rarely get a puncture, save for when the rear tire is close to being
worn out, or when it's raining.
 




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