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John Forester Speaks



 
 
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  #71  
Old October 10th 19, 03:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,630
Default John Forester Speaks

On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going
35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH.


Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in
California.

I am being a bit cynical here as actually law enforcement in a
democratic society is more a factor of what the voters actually want,
or will accept.


It's a trade-off of enforcement versus how much voters are willing to
pay in taxes for more police, more courts, more jails, and more prisons.

There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people
obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of
front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to
have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of
thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins?

Spending on traffic calming infrastructure that prevents the most
egregious and dangerous actions by vehicles is mostly a one-time expense
other than some small additional maintenance costs. Speed tables,
sharrows, protected bike lanes, curb extensions, chicanes, bollards,
etc. can all be used.
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  #72  
Old October 10th 19, 11:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 950
Default John Forester Speaks

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:10:05 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going
35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH.


Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in
California.

I am being a bit cynical here as actually law enforcement in a
democratic society is more a factor of what the voters actually want,
or will accept.


It's a trade-off of enforcement versus how much voters are willing to
pay in taxes for more police, more courts, more jails, and more prisons.

There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people
obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of
front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to
have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of
thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins?

Spending on traffic calming infrastructure that prevents the most
egregious and dangerous actions by vehicles is mostly a one-time expense
other than some small additional maintenance costs. Speed tables,
sharrows, protected bike lanes, curb extensions, chicanes, bollards,
etc. can all be used.


I would have to ask, "what is the sense of having a law if one can't
be bothered to enforce it?"

I ask as some states, New Hampshire comes to mind, some years ago,
spent a number of years of the State Assembly's time in reviewing
each and every state law and discarding those that were no longer
applicable, or no longer enforced.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #73  
Old October 11th 19, 08:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 86
Default John Forester Speaks

Am 10.10.2019 um 16:10 schrieb sms:
On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going
35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH.


Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in
California.


There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people
obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of
front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to
have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of
thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins?


From my understanding, a deputy focussing on speeding violations
collects significantly more in fines than the costs (and in Europe,
speeding violations can also be enforced by mobile traffic cameras
without permanent supervision).

The financial challenge starts where the organization having to pay for
the enforcement is not the organization receiving (parts of) the fines.

This problem we have in Germany with tax collection: the states have to
pay for the tax controllers but the rich states in the South have to
give away a fair part of their surplus to poorer states, so they relax
on tax collection as an inofficial "benefit to local businesses".


  #74  
Old October 11th 19, 04:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,630
Default John Forester Speaks

On 10/10/2019 3:11 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

I would have to ask, "what is the sense of having a law if one can't
be bothered to enforce it?"


Because if the law makes sense then most people will abide by it even if
enforcement is sporadic or non-existent. But sometimes it takes a law to
get people to understand why something is a good idea.
  #75  
Old October 11th 19, 06:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 908
Default John Forester Speaks

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 7:10:12 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/9/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Maybe not, but perhaps a 20MPH speed limit will result in vehicles going
35MPH, while a 35MPH results in vehicles going 50MPH.


Thus speaks the Mayor... Which says something about law enforcement in
California.

I am being a bit cynical here as actually law enforcement in a
democratic society is more a factor of what the voters actually want,
or will accept.


It's a trade-off of enforcement versus how much voters are willing to
pay in taxes for more police, more courts, more jails, and more prisons.

There are many laws that are simply not enforced but that most people
obey anyway. Should I ask the sheriff to start enforcing the lack of
front license plates on many cars simply because it's illegal not to
have one? Or should the time of each deputy, that costs us hundreds of
thousands of dollars per year, be used to address home and car break-ins?

Spending on traffic calming infrastructure that prevents the most
egregious and dangerous actions by vehicles is mostly a one-time expense
other than some small additional maintenance costs. Speed tables,
sharrows, protected bike lanes, curb extensions, chicanes, bollards,
etc. can all be used.


I went on a ride yesterday and the high winds caused PG&E to shut off the power. There was at least one cop at every single major intersection over a 40 miles ride. Strange that they didn't seem to have any shortage of cops.
  #76  
Old October 11th 19, 11:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 950
Default John Forester Speaks

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:53:10 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/10/2019 3:11 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

I would have to ask, "what is the sense of having a law if one can't
be bothered to enforce it?"


Because if the law makes sense then most people will abide by it even if
enforcement is sporadic or non-existent. But sometimes it takes a law to
get people to understand why something is a good idea.


I believe that you are rationalizing the question. You say, for
example "Because if the law makes sense then most people will abide by
it even if enforcement is sporadic or non-existent" yet you have laws
against drug use, for example, that people ignore even when enforced
and certainly not using something that will harm you makes sense.
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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