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TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green power evenpossible this century?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 11th 19, 11:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 9,319
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green powereven possible this century?

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:33:27 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs


Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.


Thanks for the explanation, Tom. The fuel supply for the working prototype GM has was a box about 12x9x6 *inches", so I must have misremembered the power source as Hydrogen. Sorry about causing a confusion.

AJ
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  #12  
Old October 11th 19, 11:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 950
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green power even possible this century?

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs


Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.

Very few people actually understand simple chemistry or understand why cars for the most part are much cleaner than the alternatives. The amount of energy lost in building the batteries alone nullifies ANY savings on a Tesla and it is the best of the electric lot.


If I remember correctly the 20 year old hydrogen car was not
manufactured due to a lot of reasons other than the power it produced.
I seem to remember that containing hydrogen is a feat in itself, for
example.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #13  
Old October 11th 19, 11:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,772
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green powereven possible this century?

On 10/11/2019 5:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs


Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.

Very few people actually understand simple chemistry or understand why cars for the most part are much cleaner than the alternatives. The amount of energy lost in building the batteries alone nullifies ANY savings on a Tesla and it is the best of the electric lot.


If I remember correctly the 20 year old hydrogen car was not
manufactured due to a lot of reasons other than the power it produced.
I seem to remember that containing hydrogen is a feat in itself, for
example.


Indeed. Look at commercial/laboratory hydrogen vessels.
Complex, expensive and with end-dates as the stuff permeates
any scheme one might devise.

Not any worse than '20 year' solar which turns out to be
roughly 8 (for those of you pondering a depreciation
schedule). Energy density of liquid fuels is a tough
standard to beat.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old October 12th 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 950
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green power even possible this century?

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:45:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/11/2019 5:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs

Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.

Very few people actually understand simple chemistry or understand why cars for the most part are much cleaner than the alternatives. The amount of energy lost in building the batteries alone nullifies ANY savings on a Tesla and it is the best of the electric lot.


If I remember correctly the 20 year old hydrogen car was not
manufactured due to a lot of reasons other than the power it produced.
I seem to remember that containing hydrogen is a feat in itself, for
example.


Indeed. Look at commercial/laboratory hydrogen vessels.
Complex, expensive and with end-dates as the stuff permeates
any scheme one might devise.

Not any worse than '20 year' solar which turns out to be
roughly 8 (for those of you pondering a depreciation
schedule). Energy density of liquid fuels is a tough
standard to beat.


Did you ever notice that those blokes living "off the grid" with the
solar panels and the wind generators all seem to have a small diesel
generator in a shed out back of the house :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #15  
Old October 12th 19, 09:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 908
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green powereven possible this century?

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 3:04:48 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:33:27 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs


Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.

Very few people actually understand simple chemistry or understand why cars for the most part are much cleaner than the alternatives. The amount of energy lost in building the batteries alone nullifies ANY savings on a Tesla and it is the best of the electric lot.


And batteries have a finite life, after which the toxic element must be be stored...

Sonar panels have a lifespan of about 20 years, after which the toxic element and indestructible element must be somehow got rid of. California has for years now been sending huge shiploads of worn-out solar panels to India, where they are buried.

Sending worn-out "natural power" generating or storage gear to the East is the New Colonialism.

The hypocrisy continues.

Andre Jute
Lack of foresight, indifference to consequences are the marks of Cain on the Left


Solar panels have about a 5 year half-life according to the engineers at a solar panel show. This is how they were getting a "20 year lifespan" claim. It would be 20 years to 1/8th output.
  #16  
Old October 12th 19, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 908
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green powereven possible this century?

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 3:08:59 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:33:27 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs


Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.


Thanks for the explanation, Tom. The fuel supply for the working prototype GM has was a box about 12x9x6 *inches", so I must have misremembered the power source as Hydrogen. Sorry about causing a confusion.

AJ


I have absolutely MO idea of what sort of fuel could go in a container that small unless is ever extremely compressed hydrogen and I wouldn't want to drive around sitting on a bomb.
  #17  
Old Yesterday, 12:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,319
Default TROLLFEST: Is 100% green power likely? Is 24/7/31/12 green powereven possible this century?

On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 9:22:56 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 3:04:48 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:33:27 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Here's an overview that's more dispassionate about the dream of all-green power, all the time, than most realistic reports. But it still finds that the laws of physics rule.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...e-digital-age/
An investment banker can do worse than invest in storage battery technology.

BTW, what happened to that hydrogen-powered car that GM was showing a working version of around twenty years ago?

Andre Jute
Germany, the green power showcase, has doubled electricity costs

Hydrogen takes a great deal of power to generate in quantity. Since it cannot be liquefied as helium it requires a high pressure storage vessel. The hydrogen, oxygen H2O reaction doesn't generate much power and in an age where you can buy a 700 hp car able to be driven on the street, no one would take a second look at it. Tesla got customers with its 0-120mph time.

Very few people actually understand simple chemistry or understand why cars for the most part are much cleaner than the alternatives. The amount of energy lost in building the batteries alone nullifies ANY savings on a Tesla and it is the best of the electric lot.


And batteries have a finite life, after which the toxic element must be be stored...

Sonar panels have a lifespan of about 20 years, after which the toxic element and indestructible element must be somehow got rid of. California has for years now been sending huge shiploads of worn-out solar panels to India, where they are buried.

Sending worn-out "natural power" generating or storage gear to the East is the New Colonialism.

The hypocrisy continues.

Andre Jute
Lack of foresight, indifference to consequences are the marks of Cain on the Left


Solar panels have about a 5 year half-life according to the engineers at a solar panel show. This is how they were getting a "20 year lifespan" claim. It would be 20 years to 1/8th output.


Solar panels are for showboats, people with an urgent need to feel morally superior to everyone else. In their consequences their solar panels make them the true racists.

Andre Jute
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone -- John 8:7 KJV
 




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