Where "Safety Inflation" leads

On 10/12/2019 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally speaking, he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get swept very infrequently. This is North Portland, but typical: https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg Wait until those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and landscapers love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or not. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

Our street-sweeping is contracted out.

If a resident notifies us about a problem with a street not being
cleaned our public works department takes care of the problem

Segregated bicycle facilities require different equipment since the
large sweepers can't drive down the protected bike lanes. If it costs a
little more money to keep the protected bicycle facilities free of
debris then that's a cost that has to be paid.

The City also does tree trimming, in fact I need to call about a tree
that's hanging low over the shoulder of a road I ride on frequently and
that I have to duck to get under. Sadly, we don't have panel trucks
driving right next to the curb to knock down low-hanging branches
(someone on r.b.t. once insisted that there was no need for lights to
illuminate a little up so a cyclists could see low-hanging branches
because trucks would knock such branches down, writing "Many small
trucks exceed seven feet. One or two trucks driving down a lane will
take out any branches hazardous to any cyclist").

On 10/12/2019 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

OT, but I've been skating on chestnut shells lately. I was set into a corner and hit a bunch of chestnuts and about went down last week. I was in the cemetery that gets swept with a tractor -- as fixie dope discovers at 3:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_jDIuRBEP0 The trees are out to kill us!

Oh no, why did you have to post about that? Now Frank will start up with
his "danger danger" schtick again.

On 10/12/2019 12:57 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 9:28:11 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/12/2019 11:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 10/11/2019 9:39 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

No, nor has it purchased ponies for the kiddies.

That's a shame. Kids love ponies.

And actually we have little street sweepers, but not little enough.

Contact your public works department and complain.

That's an astonishing comment coming from a city mayor. Is Scharf (AKA
"sms") pretending that all it takes is a citizen complaint to cause a
city to spend many thousands for new equipment, thousands more for
additional manpower and planning and scheduling? What a fairy tale!

And BTW, I'm disappointed in Portland. Many, many years ago on one visit
out there, I rode in a bike lane that had considerable debris. I
contacted some PDX bike organization and the guy I talked with portrayed
the problem as very rare. He said there was a post card system, where a
person described the location of bike lane debris and claimed it would
get swept the next day. At the time, I actually believed him.

Years later, riding into the city from the west, we encountered so much
trash in bike lanes we actually laughed about it. Some bike lane
apologist said "Well, that was outside the city limits." And it may have
been.

But I still thought Portland did a decent job of sweeping. I guess I was
wrong. (I haven't visited in autumn or winter. I'm not a fan of chilly
rain.)


Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally speaking, he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get swept very infrequently. This is North Portland, but typical: https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg Wait until those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and landscapers love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or not. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

So much for the cycling paradise. I'd never ride through something like
that.

OT, but I've been skating on chestnut shells lately.
The leader of a club ride the other day took us on a metropark road that
is closed to motor vehicle traffic. It's normally quite pleasant, very
curvy with some long gentle downhills that are fun on our tandem.

But that day, the leaves were beginning to coat the road, and the nuts
and shells were all over some of the bends. That's actually scary, and
more so on the tandem. I'm not quite as nimble on that thing.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/12/2019 7:25 PM, sms wrote:
On 10/12/2019 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally
speaking, he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get
swept very infrequently.Â* This is North Portland, but typical:
https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg
Wait until those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and
landscapers love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or
not. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

Our street-sweeping is contracted out.

If a resident notifies us about a problem with a street not being
cleaned our public works department takes care of the problem

Segregated bicycle facilities require different equipment since the
large sweepers can't drive down the protected bike lanes. If it costs a
little more money to keep the protected bicycle facilities free of
debris then that's a cost that has to be paid.

Please tell us, how many miles of "protected" bike facilities does your
city have? And what has been spent to purchase the "different equipment"
to keep them clean?

You claim the cost "has to be paid," but obviously, there are officials
in other cities that disagree. Jay showed the photos.

The City also does tree trimming, in fact I need to call about a tree
that's hanging low over the shoulder of a road I ride on frequently and
that I have to duck to get under. Sadly, we don't have panel trucks
driving right next to the curb to knock down low-hanging branches

It would take a very incompetent cyclist to ride so close to the curb
that you subject yourself to such hazards. And it would take a very
incompetent city government to allow trees to grow over a roadway - even
the edge - at a height of less than six feet.

The AASHTO Guide for the Development of Bicycle Facilities says "The
desirable vertical clearance to obstructions is 10 ft (3.0 m). Fixed
objects should not be permitted to protrude within the vertical or
horizontal clearance of a shared use path. The recommended minimum
vertical clearance that can be used in constrained areas is 8 ft (2.4 m)."

That's 8 to 10 feet minimum even for bike trails! And for roads? FHWA
says the minimum vertical clearance is 14 feet for all roads, even urban
local roads!
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/geometri...lclearance.cfm

So if Mr. Scharf is really ducking on-street tree branches, he must be
riding a tall bike - as in
https://cdn.instructables.com/FM1/0P...H85F.LARGE.jpg

.... but that still wouldn't explain the fact that some SUVs and pickups
are taller than almost all cyclists, and owners wouldn't put up with a
city with such terrible conditions. Despite Scharf's feigned disbelief,
many trucks are even higher.

IOW, Scharf is bull****ting, as usual.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 16:25:45 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/12/2019 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally speaking, he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get swept very infrequently. This is North Portland, but typical: https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg Wait until those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and landscapers love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or not. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

Our street-sweeping is contracted out.

If a resident notifies us about a problem with a street not being
cleaned our public works department takes care of the problem

Segregated bicycle facilities require different equipment since the
large sweepers can't drive down the protected bike lanes. If it costs a
little more money to keep the protected bicycle facilities free of
debris then that's a cost that has to be paid.

The City also does tree trimming, in fact I need to call about a tree
that's hanging low over the shoulder of a road I ride on frequently and
that I have to duck to get under. Sadly, we don't have panel trucks
driving right next to the curb to knock down low-hanging branches
(someone on r.b.t. once insisted that there was no need for lights to
illuminate a little up so a cyclists could see low-hanging branches
because trucks would knock such branches down, writing "Many small
trucks exceed seven feet. One or two trucks driving down a lane will
take out any branches hazardous to any cyclist").

What? Do you live in a jungle? I ask as I live in a tropical country
where things seem to grow overnight and still we don't seem to have
problems with tree branches overhanging roads.

Yes, I often see, particularly in Bangkok strangely enough, teams of
men trimming branches that overhang electric and telephone wires I can
only assume that the utilities and highway folks in sleepy old
Thailand must be more alert than those in The Richest Country in the
World as they seem, here, to cut tree branches before they become a
problem.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 08:33:45 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 16:25:45 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/12/2019 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally speaking, he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get swept very infrequently. This is North Portland, but typical: https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg Wait until those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and landscapers love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or not. https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

Our street-sweeping is contracted out.

If a resident notifies us about a problem with a street not being
cleaned our public works department takes care of the problem

Segregated bicycle facilities require different equipment since the
large sweepers can't drive down the protected bike lanes. If it costs a
little more money to keep the protected bicycle facilities free of
debris then that's a cost that has to be paid.

The City also does tree trimming, in fact I need to call about a tree
that's hanging low over the shoulder of a road I ride on frequently and
that I have to duck to get under. Sadly, we don't have panel trucks
driving right next to the curb to knock down low-hanging branches
(someone on r.b.t. once insisted that there was no need for lights to
illuminate a little up so a cyclists could see low-hanging branches
because trucks would knock such branches down, writing "Many small
trucks exceed seven feet. One or two trucks driving down a lane will
take out any branches hazardous to any cyclist").

What? Do you live in a jungle? I ask as I live in a tropical country
where things seem to grow overnight and still we don't seem to have
problems with tree branches overhanging roads.

Yes, I often see, particularly in Bangkok strangely enough, teams of
men trimming branches that overhang electric and telephone wires I can
only assume that the utilities and highway folks in sleepy old
Thailand must be more alert than those in The Richest Country in the
World as they seem, here, to cut tree branches before they become a
problem.

As an addendum, while we don't seem to have problems with overhanging
tree branches I do see rather large snakes on the road from time to
time. I once came across a snake (dead when I got there) that
stretched clear across a two lane country road. Never mind tree
branches THAT will get your attention :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 12:25:52 AM UTC+1, sms wrote:

(someone on r.b.t. once insisted that there was no need for lights to
illuminate a little up so a cyclists could see low-hanging branches
because trucks would knock such branches do

I know. I was the victim of that crap from Frank Krygowski, the most counterproductive "spokesman for bicycles" who ever lived. It was part of his "danger, danger" schtick. You have to make allowances for that Polish peasant's shortfall of imagination: if it didn't happen on his street corner, it couldn't have happened anywhere.* I despair of the administrators who could let such an insular provincial railroad mind loose on children.

Andre Jute
Cosmopolitan. Diverse. Tolerant.

*It occurred to me at the time that Kreepy Krygo's inability to imagine someone who on his bike is taller than a Range Rover probably tells us that he suffers from Duck's Disease, that his arse drags the ground.

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 16:25:45 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/12/2019 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Some years are better than other with sweeping, but generally speaking,
he segregated facilities don't get swept -- or they get swept very
infrequently. This is North Portland, but typical:
https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...3-1200x838.jpg Wait until
those maples dump all their leaves. Adjacent landowners and landscapers
love to blow leaves into facilities, too -- segregated or not.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/10698131385/

Our street-sweeping is contracted out.

If a resident notifies us about a problem with a street not being
cleaned our public works department takes care of the problem

Segregated bicycle facilities require different equipment since the
large sweepers can't drive down the protected bike lanes. If it costs a
little more money to keep the protected bicycle facilities free of
debris then that's a cost that has to be paid.

The City also does tree trimming, in fact I need to call about a tree
that's hanging low over the shoulder of a road I ride on frequently and
that I have to duck to get under. Sadly, we don't have panel trucks
driving right next to the curb to knock down low-hanging branches
(someone on r.b.t. once insisted that there was no need for lights to
illuminate a little up so a cyclists could see low-hanging branches
because trucks would knock such branches down, writing "Many small
trucks exceed seven feet. One or two trucks driving down a lane will
take out any branches hazardous to any cyclist").

What? Do you live in a jungle? I ask as I live in a tropical country
where things seem to grow overnight and still we don't seem to have
problems with tree branches overhanging roads.

Yes, I often see, particularly in Bangkok strangely enough, teams of
men trimming branches that overhang electric and telephone wires I can
only assume that the utilities and highway folks in sleepy old
Thailand must be more alert than those in The Richest Country in the
World as they seem, here, to cut tree branches before they become a
problem.
--
cheers,

John B.



He’s not talking about trees overhanging roads. He’s talking about trees
overhanging bike paths. And of course this is an issue.

On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 1:25:37 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:


Looking for facilities marked "bike friendly" by the League Against
Bicycling would be a good start.


"League Against Bicycling"

lol...nice

On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 7:25:52 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:

The City also does tree trimming, in fact I need to call about a tree
that's hanging low over the shoulder of a road I ride on frequently and
that I have to duck to get under. Sadly, we don't have panel trucks
driving right next to the curb to knock down low-hanging branches
(someone on r.b.t. once insisted that there was no need for lights to
illuminate a little up so a cyclists could see low-hanging branches
because trucks would knock such branches down, writing "Many small
trucks exceed seven feet. One or two trucks driving down a lane will
take out any branches hazardous to any cyclist").

On the narrow,winding secondary roads in new england that were once merely cow paths or logging roads, low branches and overgrown vegetation are a very common occurrence. Most local towns seem content to let large trucks do the 'trimming', and it's a rare occurrence when I see any DPW vehicles out trimming branches. The only exceptions are blind corners and intersections where visibility for cars to see oncoming traffic is a problem, and even that goes for a couple of years without maintenance sometimes. I'm sure Frank and John B's experience of their municipalities performing regular maintenance is true, but that doesn't happen everywhere.