Cross-hatching, 'etching', sanding braking surfaces (pads and rims)

Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?

Same questions for steel rims please.

Lastly , which of ceramic or abrasive (koolstop) pads will work best with
steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless of course
someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the tradiotinal leather
pads? Thanks

On Feb 3, 3:40 pm, "John Ampleforth" wrote:
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?


Lightly using emery paper or steel wool in the direction of rotation
can help clean off stubborn schmutz. You shouldn't ever need to "cross
hatch" a rim.

Same questions for steel rims please.

Lastly , which of ceramic or abrasive (koolstop) pads will work best with
steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless of course
someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the tradiotinal leather
pads? Thanks

Normally I think the black/greys are plenty good for *alloy*, but for
steel, try salmon (and a prayer in the wet). You might find some
Fibrax pads with leather inserts if you look hard enough.

Best bet is to rerim the thing with alloys. If you're lucky, you can
get rims with the same ERD and just transfer spoke by spoke. I've
rebuilt both of my vintage utility bikes onto alloy rims. It's not
expensive if you don't mind a plain rim, I did my Raleigh for $25
worth of Alex rims, and the German ladies bike I have, I reused some
hoops that were hanging in the garage.

John Ampleforth wrote:
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?

Same questions for steel rims please.

Lastly , which of ceramic or abrasive (koolstop) pads will work best with
steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless of course
someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the tradiotinal leather
pads? Thanks


That's been done. It doesn't help anything. How could it? You're
decreasing contact area and leaving a place for water to collect.

Not to mention that noise!

We have leather insert pads for some brake styles, not others:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/vinbrake.html

Standard calipers yes, Linear and Stirrup (pull-up), no.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 21:40:26 +0000, John Ampleforth wrote:

Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?

It won't make any difference, and whatever pattern you leave on the
surface will be scored by grit in your brake pads anyway.

Same questions for steel rims please.

Same answer.

Lastly , which of ceramic or abrasive (koolstop) pads will work best
with steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless of
course someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the tradiotinal
leather pads? Thanks

I'm not aware of steel-specific pads, although it would be a good idea if
you must ride with steel rims.

Matt O.

John Ampleforth writes:

Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase
breaking power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased
residue and less grip?

Why do you want to do this?

Same questions for steel rims please.

The harder the metal, the smoother it polishes and the better the dry
braking. Stainless steel Schwinn rims of the 1940-50 era were great
stoppers in dry weather but murder in rain. To make up for that, the
smoother the surface, the smaller the water layer to render it fully
lubricated.

Just think of dragging a squeegee over a wet window. You can't get a
better water displacer, yet it glides over a practically dry
window... that dries right after the wiper passes. Thats why chromed
steel rims brake so much more poorly than aluminum ones. The texture
of concern is in the optical region of "shiny", not something you can
readily feel.

Lastly, which of ceramic or abrasive (Kool-Stop) pads will work best
with steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless
of course someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the
traditional leather pads?

What sort of bicycle are you riding? I don't know many folks who
choose to ride a good bicycle only to weight it down with steel rims
that are not as strong as hollow section extruded aluminum ones yet
steel ones are heavier. Don't mess with ceramics on bicycle brakes,
The whole subject is counterproductive.

Jobst Brandt

On Feb 3, 1:40 pm, "John Ampleforth" wrote:
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?


Any roughness you add to an aluminum (*not* "alloy") rims will quickly
dissappear, and you'll just wear your rims out faster. My Velocity
"Aero" rims came with roughened surface from the factory. After
smoothing them with Kool-Stop black brake pads, the salmon brake pads
give me good braking performance, even in the wet.

Jeff

In article om,
"JeffWills" wrote:

On Feb 3, 1:40 pm, "John Ampleforth" wrote:
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?


Any roughness you add to an aluminum (*not* "alloy") rims will quickly
dissappear, and you'll just wear your rims out faster. My Velocity
"Aero" rims came with roughened surface from the factory. After
smoothing them with Kool-Stop black brake pads, the salmon brake pads
give me good braking performance, even in the wet.

Jeff

The one group you will see messing with their braking surfaces is trials
(NOT time trial) riders. I think the rationale is to make their brakes
really grabby, because when they put their brakes on, it's usually to
lock the wheels in place, possibly against some fairly aggressive
low-speed moves.

For road or MTB riding, probably not a good plan. You don't want your
brakes to be grabby, and you rarely care about the brake performance
between 0 and 5 km/h.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

"John Ampleforth" wrote in message
...
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?

Same questions for steel rims please.

Lastly , which of ceramic or abrasive (koolstop) pads will work best with
steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless of course
someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the tradiotinal leather
pads? Thanks


Thanks to all, (for the sake of those searching the archive i'll address
your comments all here).

I already use emery, but one pair or rims are i think beyond that so
wondered if a more extreme measure would help but i guess these are beyond
any kind of useful life.
My steel rims however have miles of braking life in them so its a shame to
swap them for alloys to just scrap them, i just can't and won't do it!, plus
the roads i use that bike on don't require fast/very safe braking.

The reason i wondered about cross hatching for these rims specifically is
that i've seen steel rims in the past which appear to have been manufactured
with such a surface; i wholly accept that hatching reduces braking surface
area and increase of grime sticking to the rim after a shorter time but then
are these older rims with the dimples and grooves inherently flawed?

I'm not sure what you're saying here Jobst:

--snip--
Just think of dragging a squeegee over a wet window. You can't get a
better water displacer, yet it glides over a practically dry
window... that dries right after the wiper passes.
--snip--

is that after the second pass of the squeegee on a wet window the surface
remains glassy/slippery? if so i take your point and also regarding the
"optical" aspect of surface; this is the same concept, but diametric order
of magnification, as the cross-hatching in retrospect. Seeing as this is the
case is there a rubbing compund which is so fine that if can improve on the
manufactured surface of the rim? Perhaps diamond?

As for the quality of the bike, it's old and by todays standards rubbish,
but i like it and want to make it work as well as possible with least
spending, no other defence.

--snip--
Don't mess with ceramics on bicycle brakes,
The whole subject is counterproductive
--snip--

Fine, but WHY!?

thanks

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
...
In article om,
"JeffWills" wrote:

On Feb 3, 1:40 pm, "John Ampleforth" wrote:
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase
breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and
less
grip?


Any roughness you add to an aluminum (*not* "alloy") rims will quickly
dissappear, and you'll just wear your rims out faster. My Velocity
"Aero" rims came with roughened surface from the factory. After
smoothing them with Kool-Stop black brake pads, the salmon brake pads
give me good braking performance, even in the wet.

Jeff

The one group you will see messing with their braking surfaces is trials
(NOT time trial) riders. I think the rationale is to make their brakes
really grabby, because when they put their brakes on, it's usually to
lock the wheels in place, possibly against some fairly aggressive
low-speed moves.

For road or MTB riding, probably not a good plan. You don't want your
brakes to be grabby, and you rarely care about the brake performance
between 0 and 5 km/h.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Thanks,
i'm not looking for grabby, just better wet braking with the steel rims
without replacing them. but i suspect this isn't really likely :/

cheers

In article ,
"John Ampleforth" wrote:

"John Ampleforth" wrote in message
...
Rims: is it safe to cross hatch/sand alloy rims? will it increase breaking
power or will it rip the pad up more leading to increased residue and less
grip?

Same questions for steel rims please.

Lastly , which of ceramic or abrasive (koolstop) pads will work best with
steel rims if any will work better than standard pads? Unless of course
someone knows a reasonably(!!) priced source for the tradiotinal leather
pads? Thanks


Thanks to all, (for the sake of those searching the archive i'll address
your comments all here).

I already use emery, but one pair or rims are i think beyond that so
wondered if a more extreme measure would help but i guess these are beyond
any kind of useful life.
My steel rims however have miles of braking life in them so its a shame to
swap them for alloys to just scrap them, i just can't and won't do it!, plus
the roads i use that bike on don't require fast/very safe braking.

If you can't bear to give up on your rims, I would beg of you to
consider swapping out the front one for an alloy* rim. That's where most
of your braking power is, and fronts are cheap and common.

Chances are if you're cheap enough to not replace steel rims, you should
be a good enough scrounger to find someone throwing out a bike with
usable front rims, too. Make a game of finding one for zero dollars.

I'm curious about these roads that don't require effective braking, but
I'm gonna let that one go.

The reason i wondered about cross hatching for these rims specifically is
that i've seen steel rims in the past which appear to have been manufactured
with such a surface; i wholly accept that hatching reduces braking surface
area and increase of grime sticking to the rim after a shorter time but then
are these older rims with the dimples and grooves inherently flawed?

*Described thus mostly to drive certain "they're ALUMINUM!" types up the
wall**.

**And this sentence should get the Infinitive Unification Front really
mad, too.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos