when will cyclists learn? don't go up the inside of buses and do wear a helmet, it is not rocket science.

http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...A49%3A54%3A227

On 27 Aug, 01:28, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/...

It's fu**'n simple, if you cant see past, dont try to pass. The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc. It seems that cyclists
fighting with large vehicles is fashionable. I think it might die out
with publicity of the effects.

What happens with the cycle to work scheme, is any advice given then
for the novice cyclist?

thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 01:28, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/...

It's fu**'n simple, if you cant see past, dont try to pass. The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc. It seems that cyclists
fighting with large vehicles is fashionable. I think it might die out
with publicity of the effects.

What happens with the cycle to work scheme, is any advice given then
for the novice cyclist?

It's more complicated than that, check the buses indicators as well.
On my way home last week the bus I was on, was turning left at a
roundabout (her indicators were on, I could hear them), because it is a
tight turn the bus was some distance away from the kerb.
The cyclist (complete with carrier bags on handlebars) must have thought
the bus was going straight on, as he went up on the inside in an attempt
to go straight on, he never even said thank you to the bus driver for
saving his life (she saw him & stopped)

--
Tony Dragon

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:56:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On 27 Aug, 01:28, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/...

It's fu**'n simple, if you cant see past, dont try to pass. The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc.

So you want the council to tell cyclists not to be ****wits?

That'll be popular with the ratepayers.

It's not necessary - it is called Darwinism.

On 27 Aug, 08:31, Tony Dragon wrote:
thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 01:28, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/....

It's fu**'n simple, * *if you cant see past, dont try to pass. * The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc. *It seems that cyclists
fighting with large vehicles is fashionable. *I think it might die out
with publicity of the effects.

*What happens with the cycle to work scheme, is any advice given then
for the novice cyclist?

It's more complicated than that, check the buses indicators as well.
On my way home last week the bus I was on, was turning left at a
roundabout (her indicators were on, I could hear them), because it is a
tight turn the bus was some distance away from the kerb.
The cyclist (complete with carrier bags on handlebars) must have thought
the bus was going straight on, as he went up on the inside in an attempt
to go straight on, he never even said thank you to the bus driver for
saving his life (she saw him & stopped)

--
Tony Dragon

And WTF are bus drivers leaving gaps up the inside in the first
place~? It is acceptable and legal for a stage bus service to drive
over the pavement to negotiate sharp corners on the prescribed route.
There's nothing as far as I'm aware that suggests that they should
straddle lanes or centre lines to do the same. When a stage service
route needs to turn left, they should always be in the lleft lane,
without leaving more than about a foot gap to any kerbing. This does
annoy me, the adoption of this unecessary wide approach is encouraging
the unwary cyclist to make a dangerous manouveur and it unecessarily
holds up traffic elswhere in the road.

On 27/08/2010 20:22, thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 08:31, Tony wrote:
thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 01:28, wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/...

It's fu**'n simple, if you cant see past, dont try to pass. The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc. It seems that cyclists
fighting with large vehicles is fashionable. I think it might die out
with publicity of the effects.

What happens with the cycle to work scheme, is any advice given then
for the novice cyclist?

It's more complicated than that, check the buses indicators as well.
On my way home last week the bus I was on, was turning left at a
roundabout (her indicators were on, I could hear them), because it is a
tight turn the bus was some distance away from the kerb.
The cyclist (complete with carrier bags on handlebars) must have thought
the bus was going straight on, as he went up on the inside in an attempt
to go straight on, he never even said thank you to the bus driver for
saving his life (she saw him& stopped)

--
Tony Dragon

And WTF are bus drivers leaving gaps up the inside in the first
place~? It is acceptable and legal for a stage bus service to drive
over the pavement to negotiate sharp corners on the prescribed route.

Is that true, could you cite the reference?
Even if that was true you would find it more acceptable to drive over a
pavement full of pedestrians?

There's nothing as far as I'm aware that suggests that they should
straddle lanes or centre lines to do the same. When a stage service
route needs to turn left, they should always be in the lleft lane,
without leaving more than about a foot gap to any kerbing.

Would you like to tell the bus drivers how they could make a left turn,
with only being a foot from the kerb.

This does
annoy me, the adoption of this unecessary wide approach is encouraging
the unwary cyclist to make a dangerous manouveur

Ah so it's not the cyclists fault that he tries to go up the nearside of
a left turning vehicle, that is clearly indicating left.

and it unecessarily
holds up traffic elswhere in the road.

As this happens at a busy roundabout the hold up, if any is little.


--
Tony Dragon

On 27 Aug, 21:14, Tony Dragon wrote:
On 27/08/2010 20:22, thirty-six wrote:



On 27 Aug, 08:31, Tony *wrote:
thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 01:28, *wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/....

It's fu**'n simple, * *if you cant see past, dont try to pass. * The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc. *It seems that cyclists
fighting with large vehicles is fashionable. *I think it might die out
with publicity of the effects.

* What happens with the cycle to work scheme, is any advice given then
for the novice cyclist?

It's more complicated than that, check the buses indicators as well.
On my way home last week the bus I was on, was turning left at a
roundabout (her indicators were on, I could hear them), because it is a
tight turn the bus was some distance away from the kerb.
The cyclist (complete with carrier bags on handlebars) must have thought
the bus was going straight on, as he went up on the inside in an attempt
to go straight on, he never even said thank you to the bus driver for
saving his life (she saw him& *stopped)

--
Tony Dragon

And WTF are bus drivers leaving gaps up the inside in the first
place~? * It is acceptable and legal for a stage bus service to drive
over the pavement to negotiate sharp corners on the prescribed route.

Is that true, could you cite the reference?

Dang, it's a long time now, but this is something I knew as a youth, a
distant relative was and still is a bus driver. It appears that new
drivers do not know how to control a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Even if that was true you would find it more acceptable to drive over a
pavement full of pedestrians?

With correct control of the vehicle, it is very rare that a bus driver
will mount the pavement, but even if he does it is unlikely to be even
by the width of the rear wheels, usually just the one. It would be an
extreme pedestrian who would put themselves at the very edge of the
pavement with a bus approaching or waiting to turn left. The driver
would have to wait until they moved, or he could go around them.

There's nothing as far as I'm aware that suggests that they should
straddle lanes or centre lines to do the same. *When a stage service
route needs to turn left, they should always be in the lleft lane,
without leaving more than about a foot gap to any kerbing.

Would you like to tell the bus drivers how they could make a left turn,
with only being a foot from the kerb.

They should have been trained to perform tight left turns with little
room.

This does
annoy me, the adoption of this unecessary wide approach is encouraging
the unwary cyclist to make a dangerous manouveur

Ah so it's not the cyclists fault that he tries to go up the nearside of
a left turning vehicle, that is clearly indicating left.

The position of the vehicle is indication to the direction intended.
Removal of route numbers from the rear of buses makes it all the more
difficult. Sunlight reflecting off the signalling vehicle can and
does make working(of which they may not be) indicators impossible to
see. HGV's have to take a wide line because it is illegal for them to
mount the pavement. HGV's are usually signed in such a way as to
bring attention to the dangers (not required for military). Buses are
not emblazoned with yellow and amber stripes, there is nothing which
makes them a greater risk today than thirty or more years ago except
for inadequate driving standards.

and it unecessarily
holds up traffic elswhere in the road.

As this happens at a busy roundabout the hold up, if any is little.

When the turn is at a normal crossroads, the bus occupies two lanes,
and with dithering in the corner prevents up to fifteen cars from
passing, and holds back this many causing obstruction to roads
behind.

On 27/08/2010 21:59, thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 21:14, Tony wrote:
On 27/08/2010 20:22, thirty-six wrote:



On 27 Aug, 08:31, Tony wrote:
thirty-six wrote:
On 27 Aug, 01:28, wrote:
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/cont...yjournal/news/...

It's fu**'n simple, if you cant see past, dont try to pass. The
council should be slapping posters on the buses and bus stops, at the
library, council offoces, libraries etc. It seems that cyclists
fighting with large vehicles is fashionable. I think it might die out
with publicity of the effects.

What happens with the cycle to work scheme, is any advice given then
for the novice cyclist?

It's more complicated than that, check the buses indicators as well.
On my way home last week the bus I was on, was turning left at a
roundabout (her indicators were on, I could hear them), because it is a
tight turn the bus was some distance away from the kerb.
The cyclist (complete with carrier bags on handlebars) must have thought
the bus was going straight on, as he went up on the inside in an attempt
to go straight on, he never even said thank you to the bus driver for
saving his life (she saw him& stopped)

--
Tony Dragon

And WTF are bus drivers leaving gaps up the inside in the first
place~? It is acceptable and legal for a stage bus service to drive
over the pavement to negotiate sharp corners on the prescribed route.

Is that true, could you cite the reference?

Dang, it's a long time now, but this is something I knew as a youth, a
distant relative was and still is a bus driver. It appears that new
drivers do not know how to control a rear wheel drive vehicle.


So you can't cite the reference.

Even if that was true you would find it more acceptable to drive over a
pavement full of pedestrians?

With correct control of the vehicle, it is very rare that a bus driver
will mount the pavement,

I agree.

but even if he does it is unlikely to be even
by the width of the rear wheels, usually just the one. It would be an
extreme pedestrian who would put themselves at the very edge of the
pavement with a bus approaching or waiting to turn left. The driver
would have to wait until they moved, or he could go around them.

Or he could drive the bus in such a way that he didn't mount the pavement.


There's nothing as far as I'm aware that suggests that they should
straddle lanes or centre lines to do the same. When a stage service
route needs to turn left, they should always be in the lleft lane,
without leaving more than about a foot gap to any kerbing.

Would you like to tell the bus drivers how they could make a left turn,
with only being a foot from the kerb.

They should have been trained to perform tight left turns with little
room.

They are, you don't start from near the kerb.


This does
annoy me, the adoption of this unecessary wide approach is encouraging
the unwary cyclist to make a dangerous manouveur

Ah so it's not the cyclists fault that he tries to go up the nearside of
a left turning vehicle, that is clearly indicating left.

The position of the vehicle is indication to the direction intended.

As are the indicators.

Removal of route numbers from the rear of buses makes it all the more
difficult.

WTF has the route number to do with it.

Sunlight reflecting off the signalling vehicle can and
does make working(of which they may not be) indicators impossible to
see.

All the more reason for other road users to take care.

HGV's have to take a wide line because it is illegal for them to
mount the pavement. HGV's are usually signed in such a way as to
bring attention to the dangers (not required for military). Buses are
not emblazoned with yellow and amber stripes,

True, in this case they are bloody big red things, not easy to miss.

there is nothing which
makes them a greater risk today than thirty or more years ago except
for inadequate driving standards.

Or cycling standards.


and it unecessarily
holds up traffic elswhere in the road.

As this happens at a busy roundabout the hold up, if any is little.

When the turn is at a normal crossroads, the bus occupies two lanes,
and with dithering in the corner prevents up to fifteen cars from
passing, and holds back this many causing obstruction to roads
behind.

So what, if the bus needs the room, so be it.

--
Tony Dragon

On 27 Aug, 23:28, Tony Dragon wrote:

And WTF are bus drivers leaving gaps up the inside in the first
place~? * It is acceptable and legal for a stage bus service to drive
over the pavement to negotiate sharp corners on the prescribed route.

Is that true, could you cite the reference?

Dang, it's a long time now, but this is something I knew as a youth, a
distant relative was and still is a bus driver. *It appears that new
drivers do not know how to control a rear wheel drive vehicle.

So you can't cite the reference.

Yes, Uncle Dave, any the wiser?

Even if that was true you would find it more acceptable to drive over a
pavement full of pedestrians?

With correct control of the vehicle, it is very rare that a bus driver
will mount the pavement,

I agree.

but even if he does it is unlikely to be even

by the width of the rear wheels, usually just the one. *It would be an
extreme pedestrian who would put themselves at the very edge of the
pavement with a bus approaching or waiting to turn left. *The driver
would have to wait until they moved, or he could go around them.

Or he could drive the bus in such a way that he didn't mount the pavement..

He should, but there are circumstances in the normal course of his
duties in which he is permitted to do so, namely when the corner is so
very tight that it would be impossible not to from the normal lane
positioning.




There's nothing as far as I'm aware that suggests that they should
straddle lanes or centre lines to do the same. *When a stage service
route needs to turn left, they should always be in the lleft lane,
without leaving more than about a foot gap to any kerbing.

Would you like to tell the bus drivers how they could make a left turn,
with only being a foot from the kerb.

They should have been trained to perform tight left turns with little
room.

They are, you don't start from near the kerb.

Well then the training is inadequate. The driver should be under
power (accelerating) as he turns in. The steering should be on full
lock before the rear wheels have moved in by the width of the tyre.
As soon as full lock is attained more torque is applied and the rear
wheels will track an arc not much smaller than the front. If he boots
the pedal, the back end will even step out, though this is not usually
so entertaining for the passengers.



This does
annoy me, the adoption of this unecessary wide approach is encouraging
the unwary cyclist to make a dangerous manouveur

Ah so it's not the cyclists fault that he tries to go up the nearside of
a left turning vehicle, that is clearly indicating left.

The position of the vehicle is indication to the direction intended.

As are the indicators.

Removal of route numbers from the rear of buses makes it all the more
difficult.

WTF has the route number to do with it.
A local cyclist would likely know the route the bus will take if he
knows the number.

Sunlight reflecting off the signalling vehicle can and
does make working(of which they may not be) indicators impossible to
see.

All the more reason for other road users to take care.

There is no excuse to set up a trap because novice cyclists have not
received training.

HGV's have to take a wide line because it is illegal for them to
mount the pavement. *HGV's are usually signed in such a way as to
bring attention to the dangers (not required for military). *Buses are
not emblazoned with yellow and amber stripes,

True, in this case they are bloody big red things, not easy to miss.
Yes, but the common sight of them leads to an acceptance of security.
HGVs are also not easy to miss, but they have these markings to
specifically indicate danger.

there is nothing which
makes them a greater risk today than thirty or more years ago except
for inadequate driving standards.

Or cycling standards.

That is obviously an issue, but as an attendee of "Cycling
Proficiency" I was not warned about bus danger, there wasn't any. I
was warned about long goods vehicles, specifically articulated
vehicles. Road users were at that time considered capable of
controlling there vehicle within the inch.



and it unecessarily
holds up traffic elswhere in the road.

As this happens at a busy roundabout the hold up, if any is little.

When the turn is at a normal crossroads, the bus occupies two lanes,
and with dithering in the corner prevents up to fifteen cars from
passing, and holds back this many causing obstruction to roads
behind.

So what, if the bus needs the room, so be it.

It doesn't, that is my point. Corners have been made easier, buses
shorter and drivers cant get around without taking up the whole road,
there's certainly something amiss in their driver education.

"thirty-six" wrote in message
...

And WTF are bus drivers leaving gaps up the inside in the first
place~?

It's because of the length of the bus. It's impossible for it to make the
turn if it's close to the curb. I'd like to see you drive a bus!