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  #1  
Old September 5th 05, 02:20 AM
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Default Differential

I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four wheels. I want something I can have fun on.
I'm looking into differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or good pictures. I see alot of trikes just drive
one side. If I can't get one that's within my budget then my idea is to attach a cassette to a jack shaft and put
sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular wheels in the back. I know this bike is going to be heavy
I'm not concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be appreciated.

D


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  #3  
Old September 6th 05, 06:11 AM
PHQ
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Default Differential

wrote in
news:1125883224.c023e86e94d90c0abcb41fa87ab6e2b9@u ltrafeed:

I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four
wheels. I want something I can have fun on. I'm looking into
differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or good pictures. I
see alot of trikes just drive one side. If I can't get one that's
within my budget then my idea is to attach a cassette to a jack shaft
and put sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular
wheels in the back. I know this bike is going to be heavy I'm not
concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be
appreciated.

D



Check out the forum on...

http://www.atomiczombie.com

There are some detailed diff. photos there in one of the threads. Quads and
trikes.

  #4  
Old September 9th 05, 06:05 PM
Edward Dolan
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Posts: n/a
Default Differential


wrote in message
news:1125883224.c023e86e94d90c0abcb41fa87ab6e2b9@u ltrafeed...
I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four wheels. I
want something I can have fun on.
I'm looking into differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or
good pictures. I see alot of trikes just drive
one side. If I can't get one that's within my budget then my idea is to
attach a cassette to a jack shaft and put
sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular wheels in the
back. I know this bike is going to be heavy
I'm not concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be
appreciated.

D


Well, Hells Bells, why don't you get a name that the rest of us can live
with. You are not someone with a name like "someone" - you are no one. Get
yourself off to the graveyard and die, why don't you?

All quad recumbents are totally ridiculous. They are around strictly for the
"Freds" in this world. Are you a Fred?

Get yourself a nice trike and be done with it. The only way a quad makes any
sense at all is if you mount a motor on it, at which point you no longer
have a bike. You then have a motor vehicle.

By the way, I HATE all motor vehicles and I hope the price of gas goes to
$20. a gallon. That is what it will take for all the idiots in this world to
abandon their g.d. motor vehicles once and for all.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



  #5  
Old September 10th 05, 01:50 PM
Derick
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Posts: n/a
Default Differential

What I put on my post for a name is my buisness. If it upsets you so
much I've changed it now. If you don't like quads then fine. But don't
diss anybody else for asking a question trying to get information. If
you want to make political statements then fine but do it in the right
place. Be careful what you wish for. You enjoy going online and
blasting people for simple question because they don't fall inline
with your ideals. How do you think that computer your typing on got to
the store.? Horse and buggy? I think not. You want fuel cost to go to
$20 a gallon then prepare for the price everything that you use in
your home to go through the roof if that happens.

Take the chip off your shoulder and help people not try an belittle
them. We're all here to get by most of the time. Just chill.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:05:52 -0500, "Edward Dolan"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:1125883224.c023e86e94d90c0abcb41fa87ab6e2b9@ ultrafeed...
I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four wheels. I
want something I can have fun on.
I'm looking into differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or
good pictures. I see alot of trikes just drive
one side. If I can't get one that's within my budget then my idea is to
attach a cassette to a jack shaft and put
sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular wheels in the
back. I know this bike is going to be heavy
I'm not concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be
appreciated.

D


Well, Hells Bells, why don't you get a name that the rest of us can live
with. You are not someone with a name like "someone" - you are no one. Get
yourself off to the graveyard and die, why don't you?

All quad recumbents are totally ridiculous. They are around strictly for the
"Freds" in this world. Are you a Fred?

Get yourself a nice trike and be done with it. The only way a quad makes any
sense at all is if you mount a motor on it, at which point you no longer
have a bike. You then have a motor vehicle.

By the way, I HATE all motor vehicles and I hope the price of gas goes to
$20. a gallon. That is what it will take for all the idiots in this world to
abandon their g.d. motor vehicles once and for all.

  #6  
Old September 10th 05, 05:56 PM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Differential


"Derick" wrote in message
news:1126356715.506ea038906998cb9cc72c769a2766cd@u ltrafeed...

Why the hell don't you bottom post like most others here instead of top
posting. Top posting is ever the sign of a moron. Are you a moron?

What I put on my post for a name is my buisness. If it upsets you so
much I've changed it now.


I don't understand some of the user names that others think clever or
humorous. A user name ought to identify you in some manner. "Someone" was
ridiculous. Why not "Nobody"?

If you don't like quads then fine. But don't
diss anybody else for asking a question trying to get information.


There are others on this newsgroup who will supply answers to specific
questions. Jon Meinecke and Tom Sherman come immediately to mind. I am here
to question your basic enterprise. I am only trying to save you from
yourself - and this is the thanks I get!

Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle.

If
you want to make political statements then fine but do it in the right
place.


Every post to a newsgroup is nothing if not an opportunity to say something
that might be of interest to the reader outside the narrow range of a topic.
To stay on topic to the exclusion of everything else marks you as a dull
man. Are you a dull man?

Be careful what you wish for. You enjoy going online and
blasting people for simple question because they don't fall inline
with your ideals. How do you think that computer your typing on got to
the store.? Horse and buggy? I think not. You want fuel cost to go to
$20 a gallon then prepare for the price everything that you use in
your home to go through the roof if that happens.


Hells Bells, I am not even sure gas at $20. a gallon would get the average
idiot out of his private motor vehicle. I think it might have to be $100. a
gallon.

Light rail is the solution to getting around a metro and heavy rail is the
solution to getting around the country. Our forebears had it right, but we
getting stupider and stupider with every passing generation.

Take the chip off your shoulder and help people not try an belittle
them. We're all here to get by most of the time. Just chill.


Too much chilling puts me to sleep.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




  #7  
Old September 11th 05, 02:31 AM
Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic
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Posts: n/a
Default Differential


Edward Dolan wrote:
...
Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle....


The primary disadvantages of a quad compared to a trike are the extra
weight, cost and complexity of the frame. However, the quad does have
certain advantages.

A quad has only 2 wheel tracks when traveling in a straight line and
for practical purposes can be considered to have only 2 wheel tracks
while performing large radius turns. A trike [1] will have 3 wheel
tracks, of course. This may lead to seriously increased rolling
resistance for the trike in snow or on certain other loose surfaces.

The second disadvantage of 3 wheel tracks compared to 2 wheel tracks is
that it becomes much more difficult to avoid smaller potholes and
debris. Unsuspended trikes can be quite hard on their riders on poor
surfaces, and adding suspension pushes a trike towards the same
category as an unsuspended quad in terms of cost, weight and
complexity.

The third advantage of a quad is greater rollover stability. For a
multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain upright, the
projection to the ground of the combined rider/HPV center of mass must
remain within the area defined by the tire/ground surface contact
points. Assuming the track of the quad is the same as the 2-wheel end
of the trike and the wheelbases of both HPV's are equal, the quad will
of course have a rectangular area defined by the contact patches that
is twice the area of that of the trike. [2]

[1] Barring such oddities as the Turner T-4-2 Tandem
http://www.turnerrecumbents.com/images1/tandem_lg.jpg. Whether this 3
wheel HPV should be called a trike could be a matter of contention.
[2] This of course does not mean "twice" the rollover stability, since
other factors come into play, most importantly seat height and how
close the combined center of mass is to the 2-wheel axle of the trike.
[3]
[3] This is why there have been very few LWB tadpole trikes, e.g. MASA
Slingshot.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

  #8  
Old September 11th 05, 03:23 AM
LoGo USA
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Posts: n/a
Default Differential

Hey guys -

Tom's tutorial:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright, the projection to the ground of the combined
rider/HPV center of mass must remain within the area
defined by the tire/ground surface contact points.


For fairly static vehicles on tilted surfaces this is a
valid comment. For the more common tipover threat of
taking tight corners a bit too fast, I think it might
be better stated as:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright during lateral acceleration (flat wide turns), the
coupling moment resulting from that lateral acceleration
with a moment arm effectively the same as the height of
its center of mass must not exceed the counteracting
moment of the vehicle's total weight (acting downward)
with a moment arm equaling the distance between the
center of mass and a line between the two outboard wheels.

While on a quad with equal front and rear track width,
this line is parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal
axis, for a trike it's an an angle to that axis, and the
farther the center of mass is from the two-wheeled 'axle'
the easier it will be to tip the trike.

For a trike and a quad with the same weight, height of
center of mass and track width, the trike will be more
likely to tip since the stabilizing moment arm will be
shorter for any practical design. For example, in a
tadpole with equal weight distribution, this distance
(and therefore the vehicle's maximum lateral g-force)
would be about two-thirds that for a quad. Under real
world conditions, an aggressive tadpole rider will
compensate for this condition by shifting his body
weight (fairly radically) into the turn.

Regards,
Wayne

  #9  
Old September 11th 05, 08:04 AM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Differential


"LoGo USA" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys -

Tom's tutorial:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright, the projection to the ground of the combined
rider/HPV center of mass must remain within the area
defined by the tire/ground surface contact points.


For fairly static vehicles on tilted surfaces this is a
valid comment. For the more common tipover threat of
taking tight corners a bit too fast, I think it might
be better stated as:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright during lateral acceleration (flat wide turns), the
coupling moment resulting from that lateral acceleration
with a moment arm effectively the same as the height of
its center of mass must not exceed the counteracting
moment of the vehicle's total weight (acting downward)
with a moment arm equaling the distance between the
center of mass and a line between the two outboard wheels.

While on a quad with equal front and rear track width,
this line is parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal
axis, for a trike it's an an angle to that axis, and the
farther the center of mass is from the two-wheeled 'axle'
the easier it will be to tip the trike.

For a trike and a quad with the same weight, height of
center of mass and track width, the trike will be more
likely to tip since the stabilizing moment arm will be
shorter for any practical design. For example, in a
tadpole with equal weight distribution, this distance
(and therefore the vehicle's maximum lateral g-force)
would be about two-thirds that for a quad. Under real
world conditions, an aggressive tadpole rider will
compensate for this condition by shifting his body
weight (fairly radically) into the turn.

Regards,
Wayne


Wayne LoGo, the Poet of ARBR, ought to stick to his poetry and leave the
physics to Tom Sherman. Who knows who is right - and who cares. It is all
gobbledygook and there is not one person in a hundred who will know what
either one of them is talking about. That is one thing that can never be
said of me.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



  #10  
Old September 11th 05, 09:45 AM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Differential


"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" wrote in message
oups.com...

Edward Dolan wrote:
...
Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on
them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle....


The primary disadvantages of a quad compared to a trike are the extra
weight, cost and complexity of the frame. However, the quad does have
certain advantages.

A quad has only 2 wheel tracks when traveling in a straight line and
for practical purposes can be considered to have only 2 wheel tracks
while performing large radius turns. A trike [1] will have 3 wheel
tracks, of course. This may lead to seriously increased rolling
resistance for the trike in snow or on certain other loose surfaces.

The second disadvantage of 3 wheel tracks compared to 2 wheel tracks is
that it becomes much more difficult to avoid smaller potholes and
debris. Unsuspended trikes can be quite hard on their riders on poor
surfaces, and adding suspension pushes a trike towards the same
category as an unsuspended quad in terms of cost, weight and
complexity.

[...]

I remember when I got my first trike how the 3 tracks were something I had
to get used to. 3 tracks are a major complication of all trikes and
something that I don't like much for the reasons you state above. Bicycles,
with their single track, are ideal of course.

I do not think a quad with 2 tracks is much of an improvement over a trike.
But the main thing against quads is their weight. I have only experienced a
couple of quads and they were not only heavy but also clunky. Trikes are a
better way to go, but absolutely nothing can beat a bicycle (a single
track).

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


 




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