Follow the Science?

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 1:39:39 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 4:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 11:30:48 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/
It's bad to overgeneralize. MDs are highly educated and trained in
medicine, much more so than typical humans. Do they make mistakes? Yes,
occasionally - but I still wouldn't want to pick a random human off the
street to diagnose and treat my heart attack.

One might say "Bike mechanics are human, no more no less." But despite
the mistakes I've seen them make, I'd say they are on average more
competent at bike repair than most people - even most MDs.

Division of labor makes sense. It's a fundamental component of
civilization.

(And I'm far too conservative to pretend we are all equal in
intelligence, training and skill.)

We are living in an age of Fake News and too much Fake Science. As Andrew said, Doctors are only human and they are just as likely to fall for a load of crap as the next guy if it is repeated enough.
About medical issues? Sorry, Tom, that's absolute bull****.

I have showed you the actual research. So please explain to me how wearing masks is a medical issue? How many lives to you think that doctors have saved by wearing masks when in most countries they don't even use masks?

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 1:45:39 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 3:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 10:00:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2021 11:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
One of the odd things is to discover that MD's don't necessarily understand what science is and they are following rumor and myth. They ran a rather silly test in which they had adjoining cages of hamsters with one group infected with SARS-Cov-2 and the others not. They measured the percentage of non-infected hamsters that became infected. Then they place the material that masks are made of between another set of cages and measured the numbers of hamsters that subsequently became infected. Since a smaller number of hamsters because infected in the second case they presented this as "science" proving that masks work.

Well, this was a rather ridiculous idea to begin with so why didn't they actually think about what they were doing? This experiment worked for the simple reason that the material reduced the flow of air between the cages or forces a more indirect route. This is absolutely nothing like the case of a person wearing a mask who has pressurized transfer of air both in and out.

So exactly where was this science they were following?

I have talked about how doctors in general are brighter than most of these so-called scientists designing and running tests like this, but they too can become propagandized into believing that a mask can have some sort of effect. We have that fool Fauci standing before a camera and saying that it would be advisable to wear two masks in tandem.

A corona virus is small, on the order of between 50 to 200 nanometers depending on the specific type. This would be extremely difficult to mechanically filter from the air under the best possible conditions and a cloth mask is not a good condition.

While the mask proponents cry otherwise the facts are that the growth of covid-19 across the globe between those that wear masks and those who haven't are virtually identical with population density being more informative than any other measures. So let's not cry about "following the science" as a man told me yesterday.

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/

You might say MDs ought to know better. Good luck with that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I took my wife down to the ER for a possible broken bone in her leg.
I'm surprised that you made the trip to ER! After all, you've implied
that doctors know no more about medicine than ordinary people. And
you've long touted your own superior medical knowledge, not to mention
your expertise about everything else in the world.

You're not losing faith in your abilities, are you?

So you really do find it painful to be nothing more than a college teacher retired and without a single thing that you can point to and say. "I did this"? That should not be too surprising seeing as how you seem to think that you can ride a bicycle.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:27:04 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 1:39:39 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 4:04 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 11:30:48 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/
It's bad to overgeneralize. MDs are highly educated and trained in
medicine, much more so than typical humans. Do they make mistakes? Yes,
occasionally - but I still wouldn't want to pick a random human off the
street to diagnose and treat my heart attack.

One might say "Bike mechanics are human, no more no less." But despite
the mistakes I've seen them make, I'd say they are on average more
competent at bike repair than most people - even most MDs.

Division of labor makes sense. It's a fundamental component of
civilization.

(And I'm far too conservative to pretend we are all equal in
intelligence, training and skill.)

We are living in an age of Fake News and too much Fake Science. As Andrew said, Doctors are only human and they are just as likely to fall for a load of crap as the next guy if it is repeated enough.
About medical issues? Sorry, Tom, that's absolute bull****.

I have showed you the actual research. So please explain
to me how wearing masks is a medical issue? How many lives to you
think that doctors have saved by wearing masks when in most countries
they don't even use masks?

You have showed what actual research?
And, in what countries do doctors not wear masks?

Tom you have your head firmly stuck in your fundament - up your arse
in other words.

Or perhaps you don't, in which case you can explain to us why
California, with about half the population of Thailand has 311 times
as many cases per million and 1,000 times the number of deaths per
million than Thailand?

Tommy, you talk about "fake news" and yes, it does exist... and you
are a shining example of it!
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:04:33 -0800, Tom Kunich scribed:

I didn't know what I was talking
about because I wasn't going with the flow.

Both parts have been obvious for a while.

You and I are being absolutely inundated by propaganda lies
that can destroy your life

It is called advertising and apparently we should be grateful as it makes
the capitalist system tic. shrug, I've ignored it for years and continued
to ride my 40 years old bicycle.

Remember when I said that people were wearing masks on their bikes while
riding? That can cause very serious lung damage.

Bull****! All the masks I've ever had to wear were to prevent lung
damage. The worst was the CO2 breather, but I've had no trouble wearing a
full double respirator whilst riding my bicycle. The current Covid-19
masks here are fine to wear while active and it is certainy easy to fit
them before I ride to the local shops and back.

AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2021 1:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/


It's bad to overgeneralize. MDs are highly educated and
trained in medicine, much more so than typical humans. Do
they make mistakes? Yes, occasionally - but I still wouldn't
want to pick a random human off the street to diagnose and
treat my heart attack.

One might say "Bike mechanics are human, no more no less."
But despite the mistakes I've seen them make, I'd say they
are on average more competent at bike repair than most
people - even most MDs.

Division of labor makes sense. It's a fundamental component
of civilization.

(And I'm far too conservative to pretend we are all equal in
intelligence, training and skill.)


I agree with you.

Ditto for licensed professional engineers:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/...sbay-terminal/


Yup. Sometimes you’re so focused on ensuring that A doesn’t happen that you
miss B just sauntering by you. Sometimes the corporate emphasis is on “Fill
in the form�, instead of “Ensure that the bad thing the form is meant to
catch is caught.� And sometimes **** just goes down that you never thought
could ever happen.

Being an engineer in a company where you still have some responsibility for
the asset decades after you’ve designed it works really well to keep your
ego in check.

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 4:05:52 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2021 1:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/


It's bad to overgeneralize. MDs are highly educated and
trained in medicine, much more so than typical humans. Do
they make mistakes? Yes, occasionally - but I still wouldn't
want to pick a random human off the street to diagnose and
treat my heart attack.

One might say "Bike mechanics are human, no more no less."
But despite the mistakes I've seen them make, I'd say they
are on average more competent at bike repair than most
people - even most MDs.

Division of labor makes sense. It's a fundamental component
of civilization.

(And I'm far too conservative to pretend we are all equal in
intelligence, training and skill.)


I agree with you.

Ditto for licensed professional engineers:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/...sbay-terminal/

Yup. Sometimes you’re so focused on ensuring that A doesn’t happen that you
miss B just sauntering by you. Sometimes the corporate emphasis is on “Fill
in the form�, instead of “Ensure that the bad thing the form is meant to
catch is caught.� And sometimes **** just goes down that you never thought
could ever happen.

Being an engineer in a company where you still have some responsibility for
the asset decades after you’ve designed it works really well to keep your
ego in check.

This is why I'm so fond of statutes of limitation and repose.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 00:05:43 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2021 1:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/


It's bad to overgeneralize. MDs are highly educated and
trained in medicine, much more so than typical humans. Do
they make mistakes? Yes, occasionally - but I still wouldn't
want to pick a random human off the street to diagnose and
treat my heart attack.

One might say "Bike mechanics are human, no more no less."
But despite the mistakes I've seen them make, I'd say they
are on average more competent at bike repair than most
people - even most MDs.

Division of labor makes sense. It's a fundamental component
of civilization.

(And I'm far too conservative to pretend we are all equal in
intelligence, training and skill.)


I agree with you.

Ditto for licensed professional engineers:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/...sbay-terminal/


Yup. Sometimes you’re so focused on ensuring that A doesn’t happen that you
miss B just sauntering by you. Sometimes the corporate emphasis is on “Fill
in the form”, instead of “Ensure that the bad thing the form is meant to
catch is caught.” And sometimes **** just goes down that you never thought
could ever happen.

Being an engineer in a company where you still have some responsibility for
the asset decades after you’ve designed it works really well to keep your
ego in check.

You know, it is very strange, all these defects in bridges and things
in California.

The company I worked for primarily undertook projects for the various
international oil companies doing business in Indonesia and I can't
remember a single job that they didn't check everything. I remember
one job where they even dug a trench across an access road to check
that we had laid down the 12 inches of compacted laterite and the 3
inches of crushed rock that the specs called for. They even specified
the type of paint and how thick each coat must be and hired "paint
engineers" to verify it. Gas pipelines had every weld x-rayed and so
on.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:30:22 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 1:45:39 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 3:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 10:00:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2021 11:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
One of the odd things is to discover that MD's don't necessarily understand what science is and they are following rumor and myth. They ran a rather silly test in which they had adjoining cages of hamsters with one group infected with SARS-Cov-2 and the others not. They measured the percentage of non-infected hamsters that became infected. Then they place the material that masks are made of between another set of cages and measured the numbers of hamsters that subsequently became infected. Since a smaller number of hamsters because infected in the second case they presented this as "science" proving that masks work.

Well, this was a rather ridiculous idea to begin with so why didn't they actually think about what they were doing? This experiment worked for the simple reason that the material reduced the flow of air between the cages or forces a more indirect route. This is absolutely nothing like the case of a person wearing a mask who has pressurized transfer of air both in and out.

So exactly where was this science they were following?

I have talked about how doctors in general are brighter than most of these so-called scientists designing and running tests like this, but they too can become propagandized into believing that a mask can have some sort of effect. We have that fool Fauci standing before a camera and saying that it would be advisable to wear two masks in tandem.

A corona virus is small, on the order of between 50 to 200 nanometers depending on the specific type. This would be extremely difficult to mechanically filter from the air under the best possible conditions and a cloth mask is not a good condition.

While the mask proponents cry otherwise the facts are that the growth of covid-19 across the globe between those that wear masks and those who haven't are virtually identical with population density being more informative than any other measures. So let's not cry about "following the science" as a man told me yesterday.

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/

You might say MDs ought to know better. Good luck with that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I took my wife down to the ER for a possible broken bone in her leg.
I'm surprised that you made the trip to ER! After all, you've implied
that doctors know no more about medicine than ordinary people. And
you've long touted your own superior medical knowledge, not to mention
your expertise about everything else in the world.

You're not losing faith in your abilities, are you?

So you really do find it painful to be nothing more than a college teacher retired and without a single thing that you can point to and say. "I did this"? That should not be too surprising seeing as how you seem to think that you can ride a bicycle.

Well, perhaps better then being a famous liar.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 01 Feb 2021 07:29:10 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 15:30:22 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 1:45:39 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/31/2021 3:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 10:00:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2021 11:52 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
One of the odd things is to discover that MD's don't necessarily understand what science is and they are following rumor and myth. They ran a rather silly test in which they had adjoining cages of hamsters with one group infected with SARS-Cov-2 and the others not. They measured the percentage of non-infected hamsters that became infected. Then they place the material that masks are made of between another set of cages and measured the numbers of hamsters that subsequently became infected. Since a smaller number of hamsters because infected in the second case they presented this as "science" proving that masks work.

Well, this was a rather ridiculous idea to begin with so why didn't they actually think about what they were doing? This experiment worked for the simple reason that the material reduced the flow of air between the cages or forces a more indirect route. This is absolutely nothing like the case of a person wearing a mask who has pressurized transfer of air both in and out.

So exactly where was this science they were following?

I have talked about how doctors in general are brighter than most of these so-called scientists designing and running tests like this, but they too can become propagandized into believing that a mask can have some sort of effect. We have that fool Fauci standing before a camera and saying that it would be advisable to wear two masks in tandem.

A corona virus is small, on the order of between 50 to 200 nanometers depending on the specific type. This would be extremely difficult to mechanically filter from the air under the best possible conditions and a cloth mask is not a good condition.

While the mask proponents cry otherwise the facts are that the growth of covid-19 across the globe between those that wear masks and those who haven't are virtually identical with population density being more informative than any other measures. So let's not cry about "following the science" as a man told me yesterday.

MDs are merely human, no more no less:

https://zukus.net/2021/01/31/st-pete...ews-headlines/

You might say MDs ought to know better. Good luck with that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I took my wife down to the ER for a possible broken bone in her leg.
I'm surprised that you made the trip to ER! After all, you've implied
that doctors know no more about medicine than ordinary people. And
you've long touted your own superior medical knowledge, not to mention
your expertise about everything else in the world.

You're not losing faith in your abilities, are you?

So you really do find it painful to be nothing more than a college teacher retired and without a single thing that you can point to and say. "I did this"? That should not be too surprising seeing as how you seem to think that you can ride a bicycle.

Well, perhaps better then being a famous liar.

Sorry, another misspelled word. For "famous" read "infamous".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:52:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

A corona virus is small, on the order of between 50 to 200
nanometers depending on the specific type. This would be
extremely difficult to mechanically filter from the air
under the best possible conditions and a cloth mask is
not a good condition.

N95 masks do mechanical filtering of larger particles, such as
aerosols and water droplets. However, at the virus level, they filter
using the electrostatic charge present in an electret formed from the
polypropylene mesh layer.

"Add an extra layer of protection to your face mask with filter media"
https://www.airfilterusa.com/commercial-industrial/air-filter-media/face-mask-filter-media
MERV 13 Filter Media uses a synthetic media
that is electrostatically charged, capturing
98% of airborne pollutants and fine particles
as small as 0.3 microns. Filtered contaminates
include pet dander, lint, fine dust, dust mites,
dirt, mold spores, pollen, smoke, harmful bacteria
and viruses.

SARS-CoV-2 and Potential Airborne Transmission
Updated Oct. 5, 2020
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html
The principal mode by which people are infected
with SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19)
is through exposure to respiratory droplets
carrying infectious virus.
Translation: We are not being showered by with "dry" virus particles
but rather by water aerosols and droplets with virus particles inside.
Block these aerosols and droplets and we stop the viruses.
Unfortunately, the masks do nothing for contact transmission.


What I find odd is that you've repeatedly posted the same
misinformation. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish.
Repetition doesn't magically correct errors. I suggest you try
re-writing your press releases to include counter arguments and add
links to experts that share your opinions.

"Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting
Different Results"
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558