Fenders. Or maybe mudguards.

On 2/10/2021 3:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:05:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Speaking of safety: Again, the collets and other design
tricks are used to allow fender stays to pop loose if (say)
a stick is snagged, to prevent locking the bike's wheel and
perhaps throwing a person over the bars. I've snagged sticks
only with my mountain bike and only in a minor way. How
common is that type of crash? Anyone encounter it?


I can't recall a case of rider injury from crud under
mudguard but it seems possible, horrible, and easy to design
around. The German standard requires such on the front so
mudguard sets sold there have to include a safety release.

Speaking of mudguard design, I prefer solid-strut welded
steel mudguards which AFAIK are no longer made anywhere.
They do not rattle. Adjustment, for those of you with
similar, is by changing the stay curvature slightly up near
the stay/mudguard interface.

I've dragged one or two front fenders into my wheel picking up blow-down. Because of my superior bike-handling skills and Ninja-like reflexes, I suffered no grievous bodily injury. More often than not, the inconvenience is loose hardware or having to readjust them to fit bigger rubber, etc. Riding through the Ozarks, my fenders packed up with tar and crushed rock riding on hot macadam roads -- or whatever that proto-asphalt is called. What a mess. I tossed the fenders.

Touring with fully loaded touring (not mountain) bikes on the rainy C&O
Towpath Trail, we encountered endless mud just the right consistency to
stick to our tires and the inside of the fenders. As the stuff packed in
there it gradually reduced the fender-to-mud-to-tire clearance to zero.

There was no drama (except for the cussing), but we'd pedal for maybe
half a mile, then scrape out the mud, then pedal for another half mile...

I eventually took a spare spoke and bent a C shape into each end. One
end in the plane of the spoke, one perpendicular, a custom mud-scraping
tool. It helped - a little.

The things we do for fun!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 7:02:31 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2021 6:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 12:14:25 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
An article on fenders [AKA mudguards] from Bicycling, via Yahoo:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/choo...221400152.html

I'm still bemused by the fact that so many American bicyclists won't
consider mounting fenders. And I'm bemused by some of the ineffective
little flaps of plastic that get sold, and bought, instead of true
fenders. I think the benefits greatly outweigh the detriments.

--
- Frank Krygowski

My full loaded touring bike has a full set of fenders. Plastic and a flap on the front fender. No flap on the back. But I should probably cut up a plastic laundry jug and make a flap for the back fender.
FWIW, I have a bunch of EPDM rubber sheet left over from a home
remodeling project. I now cut my flaps out of that, instead of plastic
jugs. It's ever so much classier. ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

OK. I found EPDM rubber at Home Depot. They sell it by the foot. 4 inch wide would be the right width. But which thickness? They have 1/32", 1/16", 3/32", 3/16", 1/4" thickness. Odd they are missing 1/8" thickness. What thickness do you think is right? I don't know if they have this rubber in stock or you have to order it delivered to your store.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 1:05:03 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 2:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:05:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/10/2021 9:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 5:02:31 PM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

FWIW, I have a bunch of EPDM rubber sheet left over from
a home
remodeling project. I now cut my flaps out of that,
instead of plastic
jugs. It's ever so much classier. ;-)

I've used all sorts of things for flaps, but check this out:
tinyurl.com/4hvuba6h

I've got Planet Bike fenders on several bikes. On most,
their flaps have been good enough for me. But the three
bikes most likely ridden in the rain now have longer front
flaps, of EPDM.

I had to cut the rear Planet Bike fender flap off our
tandem. That's because I store it vertically in our
basement, hanging from its front wheel. I sort of roll the
front wheel up the wall to get it hooked in place; but the
rear fender flap would drag or snag on the floor,
complicating that move.

But even if our club rides did go in the wet, it wouldn't
matter much of the time. It's a tandem, so on downhills
everyone is far behind us. On uphills, everyone is far in
front of us. :-/

Our "local" fender makers are Portland Design Works:
https://ridepdw.com/collections/fenders They have some
nice fenders, too, and add-on mudflaps (leather and
rubber) and a mind-bending selection of mounting
hardware. The PB are cheaper, but the good thing about
the PDW plastic fenders is that you start with a more
generous flap, and you don't have fender stay-ends poking
out and getting hung up on stuff.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/14...g?v=1553723764


I like the idea of the stays wrapping the outside of the
fender, and I like the look of their dropout hardware. I
assume it's intended both to adjust stay length and to
release if snagged?

We have PB's competing design on our Fridays - a plastic
friction collet that grabs the plain end of the fender stay,
and is held to the plastic fender by a tiny pointed screw.
It was touted as both an adjustment and a safety measure,
but it has several problems: The tiny screw has come loose,
the collet's collar requires a LOT of torque to prevent
slipping, that collar is too big in diameter and often
touches the tire, generating a squeak.

That latter problem is also because the only connection
between the right and left stay is the flexible plastic
fender, so there's lots of lateral movement. I think most
plastic fenders have a metal connector between the stays,
riveted in place. But I like best the look of a U-shaped
stay, and intend to modify ours that way.

Speaking of safety: Again, the collets and other design
tricks are used to allow fender stays to pop loose if (say)
a stick is snagged, to prevent locking the bike's wheel and
perhaps throwing a person over the bars. I've snagged sticks
only with my mountain bike and only in a minor way. How
common is that type of crash? Anyone encounter it?


I can't recall a case of rider injury from crud under
mudguard but it seems possible, horrible, and easy to design
around. The German standard requires such on the front so
mudguard sets sold there have to include a safety release.

Speaking of mudguard design, I prefer solid-strut welded
steel mudguards which AFAIK are no longer made anywhere.
They do not rattle. Adjustment, for those of you with
similar, is by changing the stay curvature slightly up near
the stay/mudguard interface.

I've dragged one or two front fenders into my wheel picking up blow-down. Because of my superior bike-handling skills and Ninja-like reflexes, I suffered no grievous bodily injury. More often than not, the inconvenience is loose hardware or having to readjust them to fit bigger rubber, etc. Riding through the Ozarks, my fenders packed up with tar and crushed rock riding on hot macadam roads -- or whatever that proto-asphalt is called. What a mess. I tossed the fenders.

-- Jay Beattie.

A nice name for it would be 'inexcusable':
https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-pl...tion/chip-seal

Yeah, tossing the mudguards was probably the best solution.
Yecchh.

You know, I didn't even think of that stuff as chip seal, but it must have been -- and I guess freshly applied. It was like riding on fly-paper over really steep little rollers with no net elevation gain. Eastern Missery.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2/10/2021 4:53 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 7:02:31 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/9/2021 6:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 12:14:25 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
An article on fenders [AKA mudguards] from Bicycling, via Yahoo:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/choo...221400152.html

I'm still bemused by the fact that so many American bicyclists won't
consider mounting fenders. And I'm bemused by some of the ineffective
little flaps of plastic that get sold, and bought, instead of true
fenders. I think the benefits greatly outweigh the detriments.

--
- Frank Krygowski

My full loaded touring bike has a full set of fenders. Plastic and a flap on the front fender. No flap on the back. But I should probably cut up a plastic laundry jug and make a flap for the back fender.
FWIW, I have a bunch of EPDM rubber sheet left over from a home
remodeling project. I now cut my flaps out of that, instead of plastic
jugs. It's ever so much classier. ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

OK. I found EPDM rubber at Home Depot. They sell it by the foot. 4 inch wide would be the right width. But which thickness? They have 1/32", 1/16", 3/32", 3/16", 1/4" thickness. Odd they are missing 1/8" thickness. What thickness do you think is right? I don't know if they have this rubber in stock or you have to order it delivered to your store.

Mine measures about 1/16".

Warning, this is heavier than the milk jug version! I get 42 grams for a
large front mudflap.

That includes a nylon machine screw and a wing nut, for easy removal.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 4:49:55 p.m. UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/10/2021 3:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:05:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Speaking of safety: Again, the collets and other design
tricks are used to allow fender stays to pop loose if (say)
a stick is snagged, to prevent locking the bike's wheel and
perhaps throwing a person over the bars. I've snagged sticks
only with my mountain bike and only in a minor way. How
common is that type of crash? Anyone encounter it?


I can't recall a case of rider injury from crud under
mudguard but it seems possible, horrible, and easy to design
around. The German standard requires such on the front so
mudguard sets sold there have to include a safety release.

Speaking of mudguard design, I prefer solid-strut welded
steel mudguards which AFAIK are no longer made anywhere.
They do not rattle. Adjustment, for those of you with
similar, is by changing the stay curvature slightly up near
the stay/mudguard interface.

I've dragged one or two front fenders into my wheel picking up blow-down. Because of my superior bike-handling skills and Ninja-like reflexes, I suffered no grievous bodily injury. More often than not, the inconvenience is loose hardware or having to readjust them to fit bigger rubber, etc. Riding through the Ozarks, my fenders packed up with tar and crushed rock riding on hot macadam roads -- or whatever that proto-asphalt is called. What a mess. I tossed the fenders.
Touring with fully loaded touring (not mountain) bikes on the rainy C&O
Towpath Trail, we encountered endless mud just the right consistency to
stick to our tires and the inside of the fenders. As the stuff packed in
there it gradually reduced the fender-to-mud-to-tire clearance to zero.

There was no drama (except for the cussing), but we'd pedal for maybe
half a mile, then scrape out the mud, then pedal for another half mile...

I eventually took a spare spoke and bent a C shape into each end. One
end in the plane of the spoke, one perpendicular, a custom mud-scraping
tool. It helped - a little.

The things we do for fun!

--
- Frank Krygowski

I rode through an area of mud that turned out to be a clay mud. It didn't look too bad and that's why I started riding through it. It was very hard slogging and withing 10 or so yards/meters, the fenders were so caked with the stuff that the wheels no long would turn. BEWARE of clay based muds.

Cheers

On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 20:02:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski scribed:

On 2/9/2021 6:20 PM, wrote:

My full loaded touring bike has a full set of fenders. Plastic and a
flap on the front fender. No flap on the back. But I should probably
cut up a plastic laundry jug and make a flap for the back fender.

FWIW, I have a bunch of EPDM rubber sheet left over from a home
remodeling project. I now cut my flaps out of that, instead of plastic
jugs. It's ever so much classier. ;-)

After trying metal and then plastic fenders, the best set I've had were
strips of perspex cut to with and shaped to fit. The real advantage was
on muddy tracks. certain muds/clays in Australia will aggregate and build
up as the wheels rotate. Scraper bits/devices work like heavy braking, so
the only alternative to walking, is to be able to scrap the mud out every
so often. Shrug, you even have to do it while walking.

I have a slide from one tour where everyone is carrying their fenders
across their rear racks.

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 4:49:55 p.m. UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/10/2021 3:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:05:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Speaking of safety: Again, the collets and other design
tricks are used to allow fender stays to pop loose if (say)
a stick is snagged, to prevent locking the bike's wheel and
perhaps throwing a person over the bars. I've snagged sticks
only with my mountain bike and only in a minor way. How
common is that type of crash? Anyone encounter it?


I can't recall a case of rider injury from crud under
mudguard but it seems possible, horrible, and easy to design
around. The German standard requires such on the front so
mudguard sets sold there have to include a safety release.

Speaking of mudguard design, I prefer solid-strut welded
steel mudguards which AFAIK are no longer made anywhere.
They do not rattle. Adjustment, for those of you with
similar, is by changing the stay curvature slightly up near
the stay/mudguard interface.

I've dragged one or two front fenders into my wheel picking up
blow-down. Because of my superior bike-handling skills and Ninja-like
reflexes, I suffered no grievous bodily injury. More often than not,
the inconvenience is loose hardware or having to readjust them to fit
bigger rubber, etc. Riding through the Ozarks, my fenders packed up
with tar and crushed rock riding on hot macadam roads -- or whatever
that proto-asphalt is called. What a mess. I tossed the fenders.
Touring with fully loaded touring (not mountain) bikes on the rainy C&O
Towpath Trail, we encountered endless mud just the right consistency to
stick to our tires and the inside of the fenders. As the stuff packed in
there it gradually reduced the fender-to-mud-to-tire clearance to zero.

There was no drama (except for the cussing), but we'd pedal for maybe
half a mile, then scrape out the mud, then pedal for another half mile...

I eventually took a spare spoke and bent a C shape into each end. One
end in the plane of the spoke, one perpendicular, a custom mud-scraping
tool. It helped - a little.

The things we do for fun!

--
- Frank Krygowski

I rode through an area of mud that turned out to be a clay mud. It didn't
look too bad and that's why I started riding through it. It was very
hard slogging and withing 10 or so yards/meters, the fenders were so
caked with the stuff that the wheels no long would turn. BEWARE of clay based muds.

Cheers


I don’t ever remember wishing that I had fenders on my bike. If I was wet,
I was wet. But I can remember wishing the rider in front of me had them.

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 3:20:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 12:14:25 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
An article on fenders [AKA mudguards] from Bicycling, via Yahoo:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/choo...221400152.html

I'm still bemused by the fact that so many American bicyclists won't
consider mounting fenders. And I'm bemused by some of the ineffective
little flaps of plastic that get sold, and bought, instead of true
fenders. I think the benefits greatly outweigh the detriments.

--
- Frank Krygowski
My full loaded touring bike has a full set of fenders. Plastic and a flap on the front fender. No flap on the back. But I should probably cut up a plastic laundry jug and make a flap for the back fender. Bolt it on. Add some color. Single speed commuting bike has a half fender on the back that bolts to the seatpost. And a piece of plastic that straps around the downtube for the front. I suppose it deflects some of the spray from the front tire. This bike is always ridden alone so keeping the water spray off me is the only priority.
If you're on a group tour you'd find them appreciative of your having a rear fender flap as well

On 2/10/2021 7:31 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 4:49:55 p.m. UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/10/2021 3:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:05:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Speaking of safety: Again, the collets and other design
tricks are used to allow fender stays to pop loose if (say)
a stick is snagged, to prevent locking the bike's wheel and
perhaps throwing a person over the bars. I've snagged sticks
only with my mountain bike and only in a minor way. How
common is that type of crash? Anyone encounter it?


I can't recall a case of rider injury from crud under
mudguard but it seems possible, horrible, and easy to design
around. The German standard requires such on the front so
mudguard sets sold there have to include a safety release.

Speaking of mudguard design, I prefer solid-strut welded
steel mudguards which AFAIK are no longer made anywhere.
They do not rattle. Adjustment, for those of you with
similar, is by changing the stay curvature slightly up near
the stay/mudguard interface.

I've dragged one or two front fenders into my wheel picking up blow-down. Because of my superior bike-handling skills and Ninja-like reflexes, I suffered no grievous bodily injury. More often than not, the inconvenience is loose hardware or having to readjust them to fit bigger rubber, etc. Riding through the Ozarks, my fenders packed up with tar and crushed rock riding on hot macadam roads -- or whatever that proto-asphalt is called. What a mess. I tossed the fenders.
Touring with fully loaded touring (not mountain) bikes on the rainy C&O
Towpath Trail, we encountered endless mud just the right consistency to
stick to our tires and the inside of the fenders. As the stuff packed in
there it gradually reduced the fender-to-mud-to-tire clearance to zero.

There was no drama (except for the cussing), but we'd pedal for maybe
half a mile, then scrape out the mud, then pedal for another half mile...

I eventually took a spare spoke and bent a C shape into each end. One
end in the plane of the spoke, one perpendicular, a custom mud-scraping
tool. It helped - a little.

The things we do for fun!

--
- Frank Krygowski

I rode through an area of mud that turned out to be a clay mud. It didn't look too bad and that's why I started riding through it. It was very hard slogging and withing 10 or so yards/meters, the fenders were so caked with the stuff that the wheels no long would turn. BEWARE of clay based muds.

I'm sure that's the stuff we were dealing with.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/10/2021 8:50 PM, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 4:49:55 p.m. UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/10/2021 3:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:05:10 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/10/2021 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Speaking of safety: Again, the collets and other design
tricks are used to allow fender stays to pop loose if (say)
a stick is snagged, to prevent locking the bike's wheel and
perhaps throwing a person over the bars. I've snagged sticks
only with my mountain bike and only in a minor way. How
common is that type of crash? Anyone encounter it?


I can't recall a case of rider injury from crud under
mudguard but it seems possible, horrible, and easy to design
around. The German standard requires such on the front so
mudguard sets sold there have to include a safety release.

Speaking of mudguard design, I prefer solid-strut welded
steel mudguards which AFAIK are no longer made anywhere.
They do not rattle. Adjustment, for those of you with
similar, is by changing the stay curvature slightly up near
the stay/mudguard interface.

I've dragged one or two front fenders into my wheel picking up
blow-down. Because of my superior bike-handling skills and Ninja-like
reflexes, I suffered no grievous bodily injury. More often than not,
the inconvenience is loose hardware or having to readjust them to fit
bigger rubber, etc. Riding through the Ozarks, my fenders packed up
with tar and crushed rock riding on hot macadam roads -- or whatever
that proto-asphalt is called. What a mess. I tossed the fenders.
Touring with fully loaded touring (not mountain) bikes on the rainy C&O
Towpath Trail, we encountered endless mud just the right consistency to
stick to our tires and the inside of the fenders. As the stuff packed in
there it gradually reduced the fender-to-mud-to-tire clearance to zero.

There was no drama (except for the cussing), but we'd pedal for maybe
half a mile, then scrape out the mud, then pedal for another half mile...

I eventually took a spare spoke and bent a C shape into each end. One
end in the plane of the spoke, one perpendicular, a custom mud-scraping
tool. It helped - a little.

The things we do for fun!

--
- Frank Krygowski

I rode through an area of mud that turned out to be a clay mud. It didn't
look too bad and that's why I started riding through it. It was very
hard slogging and withing 10 or so yards/meters, the fenders were so
caked with the stuff that the wheels no long would turn. BEWARE of clay based muds.

Cheers


I don’t ever remember wishing that I had fenders on my bike. If I was wet,
I was wet. But I can remember wishing the rider in front of me had them.

That might work for a guy using his bike only for sport, or for a
commuter riding in sport clothing and changing at the office.

It's not workable for a person riding in normal clothing and hoping to
look reasonably presentable at his destination.


--
- Frank Krygowski