Cycling without an axe

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:17:33 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 5:24:21 p.m. UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2021 3:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 13:36:51 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/02/16/man...d-be-too-easy/

Very clever and nicely done. Looks like the rear derailleur is
(almost) leaning against the rear blade. I had to ponder why he had
the saw teeth facing different directions on the front and rear
wheels. The teeth provide propulsion when facing one direction, and
braking when facing the other. So, the only brake that actually works
is the front wheel. I'm not sure, but I can't seem to find a rear
disk brake cable.

The saw blades are probably not real saw blades. If you look closely
at the teeth (03:50), they are not beveled and offset as they would be
on a cross-cut blade. Even a lumber milling blade, which has straight
across (no bevel) teeth, has a slight offset. The blade surface does
not appear to be hollow ground for sawdust relief. My guess(tm) is
the saw blades were laser or waterjet cut to the desired shape. Real
26" dia saw blades are NOT cheap ($1,000/ea):
https://www.amazon.com/Popular-Tools-NF2612-Non-Ferrous-Teeth-165/dp/B004RIWA8Q
Much cheaper used (about $175/ea):
https://www.ebay.com/b/Sawmill-Blade/13875/bn_59489360
but still more expensive than having them laser or waterjet cut.

No fenders?


My employee noticed right away that he drilled that fake
"saw blade" with a hand drill in no time at all. Real saw
blades are not at all like that.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Perhaps he special ordered 'blanks' that weren't hardened or had the teeth set yet?

Cheers

Err... normally saw blades, those without carbide inserts, can be
filed (that's how they are sharpened) so drilling would not be an
impossible task.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:20:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:24:03 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

My employee noticed right away that he drilled that fake
"saw blade" with a hand drill in no time at all. Real saw
blades are not at all like that.

Good observation.

"Cheap Banggood HSS drill bit versus hard steel circular saw blade"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpuhtno4RQ

"Drilling holes in saw blades"
http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/drilling-holes-in-saw-blades/

There are several types of steels used in non-carbide tipped circular
saw blades. I'm running into some contradictory information on the
web, so I'll take my best shot based on my experience and hope it's
right.

Non-carbide circular saw blade bodies are made from mild steel which
can't be hardened. However, the teeth are high carbon (1075 CR1)
through some kind of bi-metal process, which can be hardened and
possibly tempered. Drilling such blades is fairly easy at low rpm.
However, I wouldn't try it with a hand drill.

I'm not sure what carbide tipped circular saw blades are made from.
The outer edge has to be tempered or it won't take brazing the carbide
cutters. How hard and what material is currently unknown.

I once tried making a knife from a mild steel saw blade. No problems
shaping it with an angle grinder or producing an edge with a belt
sander. However, I couldn't harden it and it wouldn't take or keep an
edge. Probably mild steel.

Apparently circular saw blades vary in composition. I used to make
small machetes out of what were probably 30 inch, maybe larger,
circular saw blades, that used a removable insert. They were
certainly not mild steel as they took a good edge and didn't dull
rapidly in use.
see https://www.paynesaws.com/inserted-tooth-saw-blades
They were used in a portable sawmill, see
https://www.guidesmag.com/sawmills/
for a similar mill.

The best price I was offered for one, in the jungles of what was then
Irian Jaya, was one young woman for one machete.
(I didn't take it :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:20:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:24:03 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

My employee noticed right away that he drilled that fake
"saw blade" with a hand drill in no time at all. Real saw
blades are not at all like that.

Good observation.

"Cheap Banggood HSS drill bit versus hard steel circular saw blade"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpuhtno4RQ

"Drilling holes in saw blades"
http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/drilling-holes-in-saw-blades/

There are several types of steels used in non-carbide tipped circular
saw blades. I'm running into some contradictory information on the
web, so I'll take my best shot based on my experience and hope it's
right.

Non-carbide circular saw blade bodies are made from mild steel which
can't be hardened. However, the teeth are high carbon (1075 CR1)
through some kind of bi-metal process, which can be hardened and
possibly tempered. Drilling such blades is fairly easy at low rpm.
However, I wouldn't try it with a hand drill.

I'm not sure what carbide tipped circular saw blades are made from.
The outer edge has to be tempered or it won't take brazing the carbide
cutters. How hard and what material is currently unknown.

I once tried making a knife from a mild steel saw blade. No problems
shaping it with an angle grinder or producing an edge with a belt
sander. However, I couldn't harden it and it wouldn't take or keep an
edge. Probably mild steel.

Apparently circular saw blades vary in composition. I used to make
machetes out of what were probably 30 inch, maybe larger, circular saw
blades, that used a removable insert. They were certainly not mild
steel as they took a good edge and didn't dull rapidly in use.
see https://www.paynesaws.com/inserted-tooth-saw-blades
They were used in a portable sawmill, see
https://www.guidesmag.com/sawmills/
for a similar mill.

The best price I was offered for one, in the jungles of what was then
Irian Jaya, was one young woman for one machete.
(I didn't take it :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:19:01 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:20:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:24:03 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

My employee noticed right away that he drilled that fake
"saw blade" with a hand drill in no time at all. Real saw
blades are not at all like that.

Good observation.

"Cheap Banggood HSS drill bit versus hard steel circular saw blade"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpuhtno4RQ

"Drilling holes in saw blades"
http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/drilling-holes-in-saw-blades/

There are several types of steels used in non-carbide tipped circular
saw blades. I'm running into some contradictory information on the
web, so I'll take my best shot based on my experience and hope it's
right.

Non-carbide circular saw blade bodies are made from mild steel which
can't be hardened. However, the teeth are high carbon (1075 CR1)
through some kind of bi-metal process, which can be hardened and
possibly tempered. Drilling such blades is fairly easy at low rpm.
However, I wouldn't try it with a hand drill.

I'm not sure what carbide tipped circular saw blades are made from.
The outer edge has to be tempered or it won't take brazing the carbide
cutters. How hard and what material is currently unknown.

I once tried making a knife from a mild steel saw blade. No problems
shaping it with an angle grinder or producing an edge with a belt
sander. However, I couldn't harden it and it wouldn't take or keep an
edge. Probably mild steel.

Apparently circular saw blades vary in composition. I used to make
small machetes out of what were probably 30 inch, maybe larger,
circular saw blades, that used a removable insert. They were
certainly not mild steel as they took a good edge and didn't dull
rapidly in use.

Sure, but that was the hard insert, not the blade plate, which should
not be hardened or it might shatter if the saw hits something hard.
It's the plate which was getting drilled, not the inserts or teeth.

This is typical of what I'm finding:
"Circular Saw Blades"
http://circularsawblade.net/plate
Blade plates are typically made of high speed steel
(HSS) the same material that drill bits are made of.
This is a steel alloy, with small percentages of carbon
and tungsten, molybdenum, cobalt, vanadium, chromium
or manganese added to it. The purpose of these additional
metals is to harden the steel, making it less prone to
bending and warping.

Note the "small percentage of carbon" which I presume is mild steel.
If I want something that can be used for cutting, I'll use 0.6% to
1.0% carbon and not mild steel (0.05 to 0.30% carbon).

Beat on a drill and it will break. Beat on a circular saw blade and
it will bend, warp, or twist, but not break:
https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/6gdb1m/what_happened_circular_saw_blade_deflecting_the/
I would therefore suspect they might be different materials.

see https://www.paynesaws.com/inserted-tooth-saw-blades
They were used in a portable sawmill, see
https://www.guidesmag.com/sawmills/
for a similar mill.

I've used an "Alaskan mill" which is a chain saw with guide rails.
https://www.google.com/search?q=alaskan+mill&tbm=isch
They're crude, cheap, dangerous, cheap, tricky to cut straight, and
cheap. They also kill cheap chainsaws, eat chains, generate huge
amounts of sawdust, and involve more exercise than I currently
consider acceptable. However, they are cheap and were good enough to
mill all the lumber for a local outdoor coffee shop patio. I don't
know who did the milling, but they did a great job of milling and
building.

The best price I was offered for one, in the jungles of what was then
Irian Jaya, was one young woman for one machete.
(I didn't take it :-)

Ok. You don't need to feed and take care of the machete. I don't
think I'll tell my current ladyfriend what she's worth in Irian Jaya.

Incidentally, yet another great idea that doesn't work. I installed a
length of chain from a chain saw in place of the saw blade, and
declared it to be an "emergency manual chain saw" or something equally
impractical. Everyone thought it was cute, but nobody wanted to pay
money for one. I sold my sample for $15 and never made another one.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 18:03:15 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:19:01 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:20:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:24:03 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

My employee noticed right away that he drilled that fake
"saw blade" with a hand drill in no time at all. Real saw
blades are not at all like that.

Good observation.

"Cheap Banggood HSS drill bit versus hard steel circular saw blade"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpuhtno4RQ

"Drilling holes in saw blades"
http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/drilling-holes-in-saw-blades/

There are several types of steels used in non-carbide tipped circular
saw blades. I'm running into some contradictory information on the
web, so I'll take my best shot based on my experience and hope it's
right.

Non-carbide circular saw blade bodies are made from mild steel which
can't be hardened. However, the teeth are high carbon (1075 CR1)
through some kind of bi-metal process, which can be hardened and
possibly tempered. Drilling such blades is fairly easy at low rpm.
However, I wouldn't try it with a hand drill.

I'm not sure what carbide tipped circular saw blades are made from.
The outer edge has to be tempered or it won't take brazing the carbide
cutters. How hard and what material is currently unknown.

I once tried making a knife from a mild steel saw blade. No problems
shaping it with an angle grinder or producing an edge with a belt
sander. However, I couldn't harden it and it wouldn't take or keep an
edge. Probably mild steel.

Apparently circular saw blades vary in composition. I used to make
small machetes out of what were probably 30 inch, maybe larger,
circular saw blades, that used a removable insert. They were
certainly not mild steel as they took a good edge and didn't dull
rapidly in use.

Sure, but that was the hard insert, not the blade plate, which should
not be hardened or it might shatter if the saw hits something hard.
It's the plate which was getting drilled, not the inserts or teeth.

This is typical of what I'm finding:
"Circular Saw Blades"
http://circularsawblade.net/plate
Blade plates are typically made of high speed steel
(HSS) the same material that drill bits are made of.
This is a steel alloy, with small percentages of carbon
and tungsten, molybdenum, cobalt, vanadium, chromium
or manganese added to it. The purpose of these additional
metals is to harden the steel, making it less prone to
bending and warping.

Note the "small percentage of carbon" which I presume is mild steel.
If I want something that can be used for cutting, I'll use 0.6% to
1.0% carbon and not mild steel (0.05 to 0.30% carbon).

Beat on a drill and it will break. Beat on a circular saw blade and
it will bend, warp, or twist, but not break:
https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/6gdb1m/what_happened_circular_saw_blade_deflecting_the/
I would therefore suspect they might be different materials.

see https://www.paynesaws.com/inserted-tooth-saw-blades
They were used in a portable sawmill, see
https://www.guidesmag.com/sawmills/
for a similar mill.

I've used an "Alaskan mill" which is a chain saw with guide rails.
https://www.google.com/search?q=alaskan+mill&tbm=isch
They're crude, cheap, dangerous, cheap, tricky to cut straight, and
cheap. They also kill cheap chainsaws, eat chains, generate huge
amounts of sawdust, and involve more exercise than I currently
consider acceptable. However, they are cheap and were good enough to
mill all the lumber for a local outdoor coffee shop patio. I don't
know who did the milling, but they did a great job of milling and
building.

We were building "drilling locations" for an oil company in the jungle
and one of the requirements was a double layer of 3 inch planks where
the rig was to sit. Normal trees, apparently "first growth" in the
area was 2 feet or more in diameter and as all the locations were only
accessible by helicopter we came up with the idea of using a portable
sawmill which we could move to a logging site, fairly close to the
drilling location, by helicopter and then air lift the sawn timber to
the drill site.


The best price I was offered for one, in the jungles of what was then
Irian Jaya, was one young woman for one machete.
(I didn't take it :-)

Ok. You don't need to feed and take care of the machete. I don't
think I'll tell my current ladyfriend what she's worth in Irian Jaya.

Money had no value there. One site was close to a river and the locals
were floating up and down the river so the "camp manager" wanted to
buy some fresh fish and asked them "how much for fish" and they
couldn't understand what he meant. He finally got the idea that they
would trade for some of our exotic stuff and showed them what we had
to offer and they picked some canned fish in tomato sauce - the flat
tins where the whole top comes off with a sort of key - and even our
hired help wouldn't eat. One tin for one, several pound, fish :-)

In that society daughters were somewhat of a dreg on the market as
with a couple of wives you didn't need any more female help around the
place and the daughters weren't good for doing any real heavy work and
a fellow had to keep a pretty close eye on them to avoid having even
more females around the place :-) While a good iron "parang" on the
other hand...


Incidentally, yet another great idea that doesn't work. I installed a
length of chain from a chain saw in place of the saw blade, and
declared it to be an "emergency manual chain saw" or something equally
impractical. Everyone thought it was cute, but nobody wanted to pay
money for one. I sold my sample for $15 and never made another one.
--
Cheers,

John B.