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BOB vs LongTail?
Idle curiosity question:
What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not? -- PeteCresswell |
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BOB vs LongTail?
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:29:06 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Idle curiosity question: What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not? I have been interested in cargo equipment for quite a while and have owned both types. The BOB has the advantage of being able to disconnect easily. Dynamically, it's a great package... once you get the damn thing loaded and underway, you really can't beat it. The huge disadvantage to a BOB is that it's difficult to maneuver. We ride tandem and it's a bear to back it up or get it up to a parking wall. It has poor static stability and tends to jackknife easily while you're loading it. I think I'd go with a BOB over a longtail; however, I'm not going to preach an hour-long sermon over it. It is a whole lot easier to load a longtail, though. I built a motorcycle-style center stand for my BOB and that helped... it's still quite a circus, though. Jones |
#3
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BOB vs LongTail?
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Idle curiosity question: What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not? More capacity, including passengers, the BOB has relatively modest weight and volume capacity. The BOB also tends to thrash its cargo badly. The BOB is particularly good at light loads & rough terrain, which is mostly what I've used mine for (MTB picnics). It's OK for light grocery shopping, but a bit of a PITA for general errand running, I prefer a low-tech milk crate on rear rack (or bucket panniers). I might consider it an alternative to panniers for loaded touring. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have much use for a long-tail. I've made several 2-wheel trailers and use them to haul my boats around. I've gone up to ~600 lb total weight (including me & the bike, trailer and cargo), and that's with boats up to 16' long. No exotic parts or materials -- dimensional lumber, lag screws and cast-off MTB wheels. A long tail with cargo bags might be good for heavy grocery shopping, but so would a (2-wheel) trailer, and the trailer is much cheaper and easier to store. The long-tail is a solution looking for a problem in my world. |
#4
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BOB vs LongTail?
On 2/19/2010 7:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Idle curiosity question: What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not? I've not yet owned any cargo bike--but it seems to me that the idea of a "cargo" longbike is sorely misplaced. The only thing a longtail is really great at is carrying things which can sit mostly on the top of the rack, and hang down both sides conveniently--like, a smaller person's butt sitting on the rack, and their legs hanging down on both sides..... which was the main point of longtails. That you could attach child seats to them and the kids legs hung down on the sides naturally. In photos of bikes in Europe, that's how most of them are used. The only inanimate thing I can say I've seen that a longbike was carrying well, was a couple surfboards--one strapped against each side, hanging off the back a couple feet, with the fins out. For carrying nearly any other kind of cargo, a longtail would be much less ideal than a front-bucket baksfiet-type bike, that has a big, open cargo area in front. Which also allows you to keep an eye on the (inanimate) cargo, in case any of it comes loose and falls out during the ride. Of course one can carry people in them too, which works also. (I don't know why they like the wooden front boxes, though. I would be much more interested in a stainless-steel large-mesh basket myself. Won't rot, holds just as much and not nearly the aero drag when empty) If you only had to carry cargo occasionally (and you knew in advance when you would be doing so) then a trailer would make the most sense to me. It can offer the nearly-flat cargo space of the bakfiets, while also allowing long stuff to hang off the back end without interfering with the rider. ~ |
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BOB vs LongTail?
On Feb 20, 1:37*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote: Idle curiosity question: What do longtails like Surly's Big Dummy or Yuba's Mundo offer that a sophisticated trailer like one of BobGears does not? More capacity, including passengers, the BOB has relatively modest weight and volume capacity. The BOB also tends to thrash its cargo badly. The BOB is particularly good at light loads & rough terrain, which is mostly what I've used mine for (MTB picnics). It's OK for light grocery shopping, but a bit of a PITA for general errand running, I prefer a low-tech milk crate on rear rack (or bucket panniers). I might consider it an alternative to panniers for loaded touring. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have much use for a long-tail. I've made several 2-wheel trailers and use them to haul my boats around. I've gone up to ~600 lb total weight (including me & the bike, trailer and cargo), and that's with boats up to 16' long. No exotic parts or materials -- dimensional lumber, lag screws and cast-off MTB wheels. A long tail with cargo bags might be good for heavy grocery shopping, but so would a (2-wheel) trailer, and the trailer is much cheaper and easier to store. The long-tail is a solution looking for a problem in my world. A bit off the OP's interest, but what do you think of this small-wheel trailer he http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrrad...ailer_233.html I thought about getting one just to try it on my groceries but decided I would never haul 40kg of groceries and could manage with pannier baskets. (And spent the money instead getting gold coachlining, Brooks saddle and Brooks grips, and with the change bought a big leather saddlebag.) Also, on a bike that already has a long wheelbase, a trailer would probably be cumbersome in some of the narrow alleys I shoot through between streets, or on the footbridge I routinely use to come home and on the downhill side hit at at 40kph with about two inches to spare on either side. Also, I wondered how precisely one can place a trailer behind one at speed. Andre Jute Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live -- Mark Twain |
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BOB vs LongTail?
Hi,
mostly in the same fashion... Andre Jute wrote: A bit off the OP's interest, but what do you think of this small-wheel .... When I was looking for cargo-carrying ability a while back, I considered a long-tail (though I just had a new bike then and even a "normal" bike is difficult to handle in trains (narrow train doors, hang-up-on-the-front-wheel racks, narrow corridors,...), so I'm not interested in a longer bike than I already have. Otherwise this would suit 50% of my cargo carrying needs. Next came looking at one-wheel trailers. Though I found out I don't need them THAT badly (BOB Yak is quite expensive). Also I don't need the terrain-going ability of the single-wheel trailer. So I checked two-wheel trailer. The good ones are still quite expensive (too expensive for my occasional need). The cheap ones usually attach to the seat post - which I ruled out at the beginning. That left me stranded - especially since I wanted something that I can use as a trolley (when going on foot) and I'm quite tall. Finally I designed my own trailer. It attaches to the bike at the left side of the rear hub, it has a long-enough handle and the wheels are far enough back to allow me to turn the trailer on it's rear side. This allows me to pull it by hand easily. After quite some time I bought a set of detachable wheels for a baby carriage, including an axle (1m overall width). I built a box from wood (painted with some leftover color). A trip to the Do-It-Yourself store bought me several pieces of stock metal with lots of holes in it, some stock aluminium, a few reflectors and I got a coupling at a bike store. It took a few hours to put everything together, and now the trailer does everything I need it to. It carries about 30kg. I should be able to improve upon that, but it's enough for me. It runs very well (no noticeable resistance) and actually pushes a lot when loaded ;-) The whole thing was quite cheap and fun to build. It's actually even more fun when I uncouple it at the supermarket, use it as a supermarket cart and re-attach it outside. I always get comments ;-) A description (sorry, in German only) and a few pictures are he http://de-rec-fahrrad.de/technik/anhaenger_modell_muenchen_1 Ciao... |
#7
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BOB vs LongTail?
Per Bernhard Agthe:
(sorry, in German only) Google ToolBar | Translate -- PeteCresswell |
#8
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BOB vs LongTail?
On Feb 22, 12:24*pm, Bernhard Agthe wrote:
Finally I designed my own trailer. It attaches to the bike at the left side of the rear hub, it has a long-enough handle and the wheels are far enough back to allow me to turn the trailer on it's rear side. This allows me to pull it by hand easily. After quite some time I bought a set of detachable wheels for a baby carriage, including an axle (1m overall width). I built a box from wood (painted with some leftover color). A trip to the Do-It-Yourself store bought me several pieces of stock metal with lots of holes in it, some stock aluminium, a few reflectors and I got a coupling at a bike store. It took a few hours to put everything together, and now the trailer does everything I need it to. It carries about 30kg. I should be able to improve upon that, but it's enough for me. It runs very well (no noticeable resistance) and actually pushes a lot when loaded ;-) The whole thing was quite cheap and fun to build. It's actually even more fun when I uncouple it at the supermarket, use it as a supermarket cart and re-attach it outside. I always get comments ;-) A description (sorry, in German only) and a few pictures are he http://de-rec-fahrrad.de/technik/anhaenger_modell_muenchen_1 Looks a bit like the carts we built as kids, only yours is better painted! -- Andre Jute |
#9
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BOB vs LongTail?
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:12:13 -0800 (PST), in rec.bicycles.tech Andre
Jute wrote: Also, I wondered how precisely one can place a trailer behind one at speed. I'm not a BOB *believer*; however, I do use one. In terms of dynamic stability and tracking, I give them quite high marks. I say this having used a few other products such as a Burley trailer and a longtail. Tracking is the BOB's forte and it's a great package for *that*. Its problem is that you frequently need to roll the bicycle backwards and, until you have a loaded BOB hooked up, you don't realize how often that is... and it's a PITA! BOBs are also prone to jackknife situations while you're trying to load them. If it's even slightly off a straight line, the downward force pulls it into a jackknife. It is my opinion that, once you manage to get the damn thing loaded, pointed in the right direction, and under weigh, the BOB is the best unit. It's also my experience that this is only half of the picture and that one should consider the whole thing before buying one. Now, you know what *I* think; use your two remaining wishes carefully! Jones |
#10
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BOB vs LongTail?
DougC wrote:
For carrying nearly any other kind of cargo, a longtail would be much less ideal than a front-bucket baksfiet-type bike, that has a big, open cargo area in front. Which also allows you to keep an eye on the (inanimate) cargo, in case any of it comes loose and falls out during the ride. Of course one can carry people in them too, which works also. The advantage of a longtail cargo bike is that it approaches bakfiets total load capacity while performing and handling much more like a normal bike. The significant extra weight, small front wheel, and the long linkage steering of a bakfiets make it slow and ungainly compared to an Xtracycle, Surly Big Dummy, Kona Ute, or Yuba Mundo. The bakfiets has its advantages (just as you note) but a longtail makes a much better "only bike". If you only had to carry cargo occasionally (and you knew in advance when you would be doing so) then a trailer would make the most sense to me. It can offer the nearly-flat cargo space of the bakfiets, while also allowing long stuff to hang off the back end without interfering with the rider. Compared to longtails, trailers bounce, jackknife, flip over, and are more difficult to prop up on a sidestand or centerstand. They're more difficult to lock up and mostly less capable of negotiating constricted spaces. Consider this: Why are pickup trucks and vans so much more popular than auto trailers, when trailers are much more economical and can be drawn by a more efficient and comfortable car? The same principles apply to cycle trailers. Chalo |
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