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Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 9th 08, 04:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)

I've long been dismayed at the liability waivers for invitational
rides. I understand their purpose - but is it really necessary to
make a bike ride sound like such an extreme danger?

Anyway, I think the all-time champion waiver has arrived by mail.
It's from Columbus Outdoor Pursuits, for GOBA, the Great Ohio Bicycle
Adventure. I've pasted about a third of it below.

(Surprisingly, no mention of meteorite strikes!)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In signing this agreement for myself or for the named participant (if
the participant is under age 18), I know that those participating in
The 2008 Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure (GOBA) will be exposed to the
risks of serious bodily injury, sickness, death, or loss of property
due to the circumstances inherent in this event including the
negligent acts or omissions of others. I also understand and am aware
that there are a variety of specific risks and dangers inherent in a
voluntary bicycling event such as GOBA including, without limitation,
falls, collisions with other bicyclists, motor vehicles or stationary
objects; adverse weather conditions; and those caused by conditions of
the road. I also understand that by participating in GOBA I will be
riding my bicycle on public roads with many other bicyclists, some of
whom may be inexperienced at riding in groups. I also understand that
the large number of bicyclists in GOBA many of whom are inexperienced,
adds a further element of danger.

I understand that during GOBA I may suffer serious bodily injury,
sickness, or death, while walking or travelling via bus or other motor
vehicle or boat, due to my own carelessness or because of the
negligence of others. I further understand that I may be exposed to
these same risks while engaged in other voluntary activities such as
dancing, swimming, and dining during GOBA.

I understand as well that I will be camping outdoors during GOBA and
that this necessarily involves being exposed to the elements including
the risk of unpredictable and possibly dangerous weather conditions
such as severe or violent thunderstorms, rain, hail, lightning, wind,
and tornadoes either during the day or at night. In exchange for being
permitted to participate in GOBA I voluntarily agree to assume all of
these and the other risks inherent in GOBA....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.... and then it gets into permitting medical treatment, required hat
styles, indemnifying & holding harmless, choice of courts of law, and
all the rest.

Dancing! Dining! Wind! Rain!

Has anybody seen a scarier waiver?

- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #3  
Old February 9th 08, 12:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Posts: 1,611
Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)



wrote:
I've long been dismayed at the liability waivers for invitational
rides. I understand their purpose - but is it really necessary to
make a bike ride sound like such an extreme danger?

Anyway, I think the all-time champion waiver has arrived by mail.
It's from Columbus Outdoor Pursuits, for GOBA, the Great Ohio Bicycle
Adventure. I've pasted about a third of it below.

(Surprisingly, no mention of meteorite strikes!)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In signing this agreement for myself or for the named participant (if
the participant is under age 18), I know that those participating in
The 2008 Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure (GOBA) will be exposed to the
risks of serious bodily injury, sickness, death, or loss of property
due to the circumstances inherent in this event including the
negligent acts or omissions of others. I also understand and am aware
that there are a variety of specific risks and dangers inherent in a
voluntary bicycling event such as GOBA including, without limitation,
falls, collisions with other bicyclists, motor vehicles or stationary
objects; adverse weather conditions; and those caused by conditions of
the road. I also understand that by participating in GOBA I will be
riding my bicycle on public roads with many other bicyclists, some of
whom may be inexperienced at riding in groups. I also understand that
the large number of bicyclists in GOBA many of whom are inexperienced,
adds a further element of danger.

I understand that during GOBA I may suffer serious bodily injury,
sickness, or death, while walking or travelling via bus or other motor
vehicle or boat, due to my own carelessness or because of the
negligence of others. I further understand that I may be exposed to
these same risks while engaged in other voluntary activities such as
dancing, swimming, and dining during GOBA.

I understand as well that I will be camping outdoors during GOBA and
that this necessarily involves being exposed to the elements including
the risk of unpredictable and possibly dangerous weather conditions
such as severe or violent thunderstorms, rain, hail, lightning, wind,
and tornadoes either during the day or at night. In exchange for being
permitted to participate in GOBA I voluntarily agree to assume all of
these and the other risks inherent in GOBA....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... and then it gets into permitting medical treatment, required hat
styles, indemnifying & holding harmless, choice of courts of law, and
all the rest.

Dancing! Dining! Wind! Rain!

Has anybody seen a scarier waiver?

- Frank Krygowski


I suppose one could hold them responsible for the ride not being fun,
if nothing else.

Joseph
  #5  
Old February 9th 08, 10:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)

On Feb 9, 3:50 pm, Andrew Price wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:59:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:

[---]

... and then it gets into permitting medical treatment, required hat
styles, indemnifying & holding harmless, choice of courts of law, and
all the rest.


You have too many lawyers in the U.S. The devil finds work for idle
hands.


Agreed - even though we have one in the family!

Say, could you tell us what the typical bike event waiver looks like
in your country? (Or countries, I suppose.)

- Frank Krygowski
  #6  
Old February 10th 08, 12:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Posts: 1,611
Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)

On Feb 9, 10:59*pm, wrote:
On Feb 9, 3:50 pm, Andrew Price wrote:

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:59:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:


[---]


... and then it gets into permitting medical treatment, required hat
styles, indemnifying & holding harmless, choice of courts of law, and
all the rest.


You have too many lawyers in the U.S. *The devil finds work for idle
hands.


Agreed - even though we have one in the family!

Say, could you tell us what the typical bike event waiver looks like
in your country? *(Or countries, I suppose.)

- Frank Krygowski


I don't recall signing any waivers for the races/rides I've done here
in Norway. All rides require a license from the national cycling
federation. A license is more or less just insurance. There may be
some fine print someplace in relation to getting a license, but I
don't recall it.

Joseph
  #8  
Old February 10th 08, 05:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Ron Wallenfang
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Posts: 414
Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)

On Feb 8, 9:59*pm, wrote:
I've long been dismayed at the liability waivers for invitational
rides. *I understand their purpose - but is it really necessary to
make a bike ride sound like such an extreme danger?

Anyway, I think the all-time champion waiver has arrived by mail.
It's from Columbus Outdoor Pursuits, for GOBA, the Great Ohio Bicycle
Adventure. *I've pasted about a third of it below.

(Surprisingly, no mention of meteorite strikes!)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------------------------------------

In signing this agreement for myself or for the named participant (if
the participant is under age 18), I know that those participating in
The 2008 Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure (GOBA) will be exposed to the
risks of serious bodily injury, sickness, death, or loss of property
due to the circumstances inherent in this event including the
negligent acts or omissions of others. I also understand and am aware
that there are a variety of specific risks and dangers inherent in a
voluntary bicycling event such as GOBA including, without limitation,
falls, collisions with other bicyclists, motor vehicles or stationary
objects; adverse weather conditions; and those caused by conditions of
the road. I also understand that by participating in GOBA I will be
riding my bicycle on public roads with many other bicyclists, some of
whom may be inexperienced at riding in groups. I also understand that
the large number of bicyclists in GOBA many of whom are inexperienced,
adds a further element of danger.

I understand that during GOBA I may suffer serious bodily injury,
sickness, or death, while walking or travelling via bus or other motor
vehicle or boat, due to my own carelessness or because of the
negligence of others. I further understand that I may be exposed to
these same risks while engaged in other voluntary activities such as
dancing, swimming, and dining during GOBA.

I understand as well that I will be camping outdoors during GOBA and
that this necessarily involves being exposed to the elements including
the risk of unpredictable and possibly dangerous weather conditions
such as severe or violent thunderstorms, rain, hail, lightning, wind,
and tornadoes either during the day or at night. In exchange for being
permitted to participate in GOBA I voluntarily agree to assume all of
these and the other risks inherent in GOBA....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------------------------------------

... and then it gets into permitting medical treatment, required hat
styles, indemnifying & holding harmless, choice of courts of law, and
all the rest.

Dancing! *Dining! *Wind! *Rain!

Has anybody seen a scarier waiver?

- Frank Krygowski


Speaking as a lawyer, I don't have any problem with it. Since I went
to law school in the 1960s, there has been an explosion in tort
liability, reaching into nooks and crannies that one never would have
imagined. Of direct interest to the kinds of non-profit organizations
that sponsor bike rides has been the effective abolition of once
almost universal charitable and religious common law immunity. Short
of statutory protection, which I believe has happened in some places,
though memory fails me on the details, the working assumption would be
that ride sponsors may be liable to an furthest extent of a trial
lawyer's imagination.

Consider, for example, this argument - adapted only slightly from a
case in which I was actually involved - on behalf of the family of a
man killed when he hit a sinkhole and veered into the path of an
oncoming car: the sponsors knew or should have known the Smith road
had a bunch of sinkholes, but negligently failed to re-route on Jones
road, just a mile away. Also, the city is liable for not fixing the
sinkhole, and architect who designed the road some years earlier is
liable for failing to properly specify how to compact the base, the
contractor is liable for not compacting it properly, and the inspector
is liable for watching the contractor mess up. The only change I made
was to substitute an event sponsor for the governmental agency that
had routed a bike path on the road in issue. In the case at issue,
everyone but the auto driver going the other way chipped into a six
figure settlement. The family went to trial against the other driver
and lost.

My solution is legislation to restore a broad degree of charitable and
religious immunity. But there's a powerful political party that is in
the hip pocket of the trial lawyers' lobby, among other lobbies, and a
legislative solution is difficult. So you can look for prudent event
sponsors to be asking for waivers.
  #9  
Old February 10th 08, 07:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Posts: 2,673
Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)

On Feb 9, 11:42 pm, Ron Wallenfang wrote:
On Feb 8, 9:59 pm, wrote:


Has anybody seen a scarier waiver?


Speaking as a lawyer, I don't have any problem with it. Since I went
to law school in the 1960s, there has been an explosion in tort
liability, reaching into nooks and crannies that one never would have
imagined. ...

My solution is legislation to restore a broad degree of charitable and
religious immunity. But there's a powerful political party that is in
the hip pocket of the trial lawyers' lobby, among other lobbies, and a
legislative solution is difficult. So you can look for prudent event
sponsors to be asking for waivers.


But seriously, is it really necessary to contrive a list of a dozen or
so improbable, terrifying disasters to construct a workable waiver?

As many here know, I'm dismayed by the fashion for treating bicycling
as extreme and death-defying. I think it hurts cyclists as a whole,
because it discourages people from riding, and it leads to
unsympathetic motorists, cops, judges and juries. ("What the hell is
he doing riding his bike on the road?" and "He should have known the
risks before he got hit by the guy running the stop sign.")

I understand that there are people who need to be sued; but yes, I do
think there are far too many predatory lawyers.

Still, other event organizers seem to get by with waivers that are far
less fear-mongering. I thought this one went far beyond "excessive,"
and well into "ludicrous."

Do you really disagree? Should _all_ waivers read like that?

- Frank Krygowski

  #10  
Old February 10th 08, 09:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
peter
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Posts: 296
Default Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?)

On Feb 9, 10:00 pm, wrote:

As many here know, I'm dismayed by the fashion for treating bicycling
as extreme and death-defying. I think it hurts cyclists as a whole,
because it discourages people from riding, and it leads to
unsympathetic motorists, cops, judges and juries. ("What the hell is
he doing riding his bike on the road?" and "He should have known the
risks before he got hit by the guy running the stop sign.")

I understand that there are people who need to be sued; but yes, I do
think there are far too many predatory lawyers.

Still, other event organizers seem to get by with waivers that are far
less fear-mongering. I thought this one went far beyond "excessive,"
and well into "ludicrous."


At least the waiver you cited makes it clear that the dangers are not
uniquely attributable to bicycling, but also apply to numerous other
activities, incl. walking, bus riding, other motor vehicle riding,
boating, swimming, eating, dancing, camping, etc.

So if we're going to need waiver forms of some kind, I'd rather see
this kind of all-inclusive one vs. one that only mentions cycling as
having potential hazards.
 




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