Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality

=v= The less said, the better. Don't offer any information
that's outside the applicability of the ticket you were charged
with ("oh yeah, I was also running red lights and smuggling
drugs, and I didn't see the cop there because I was on my
cellphone doing insider trading with Martha Stewart"). Even
if Usenetters bait you into doing so.
_Jym_

When the opposite light turned red I waited for a SUV to
pass that illegally run the red light (in front of the cop)
and I then began riding.

=v= The cop is in the wrong for selectively enforcing the law,
especially as the SUV is far more dangerous. But I've already
been chastised for mentioning the 14th Amendment defense, which
I guess doesn't go over as well in NYC like it does in some
parts of the country.

=v= I can see how a red light-running SUV would give you a
reasonable concern for your safety, and how you could've decided
to get yourself out of harm's way, even if it meant "improper
riding of a bicycle." It seems to me you might want to mention
that in court (if true), leaving it up to the judge to make what
he or she will of the officer's failure to ticket the SUV.
_Jym_

I find it curious that you don't want to say what you were
ticketed for, much less whether you actually did it or not.

=v= It's kind of standard operating procedure not to speak
publicly about something that's awaiting trial.
_Jym_

Don Wiss wrote:
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:10:44 GMT, slim wrote:


Also NEVER give your drivers license as any infractions you are
guilty of while on a bike go on your record.


NOT true.

Don donwiss at panix.com.

This brings up another point. Do you need to carry photo ID when riding
a bicycle in New York?

I had always thought that you didn't, but the other day I was pulled
over for running a red light northbound on Bowery at Spring (Spring ends
in a T at Bowery). The first thing the officer did was ask for ID. I
initially refused and he gave me the story that if I didn't we'd have to
go the station to figure out who I was. He promised that it would take a
few hours. Eventually I gave in and showed him my work ID (a photo ID).
This wasn't enough for him and he wanted to see a state issued ID, so I
showed my drivers license.

I always thought that in this country you did not have to carry an ID
unless you were doing something that required a license or permit (i.e..
driving). But this cop insisted that I could get a summons for not
having an ID (even for not having $5 on me!). Who is right? If it is the
cop does anyone know the law which states this?

By the way, I didn't get the ticket.

Andrew Rakeman

I always thought that in this country you did not have to carry an ID
unless you were doing something that required a license or permit (i.e..
driving). But this cop insisted that I could get a summons for not
having an ID (even for not having $5 on me!). Who is right? If it is the
cop does anyone know the law which states this?

In most states, a police officer has the right to stop anyone who appears to be
in violation of the law and determine the person's identification. According to
the UVC, an officer also has the right to stop any cyclist and do an equipment
check to make sure the bicycle is road legal and safe (i.e. working brakes).

Officers may request that you identify yourself to them in a satisfactory
manner. Certainly since 9/11, they require a photo ID that has your name and
current address and usually want a state issued ID. Company IDs usually don't
have home addresses and many do not even have the company's name. Library cards
don't have photos and school cards don't have home addresses.

This leaves the cyclist in a quandary. The prefered IDs are 1) a drivers
license, 2) a "Green Card" or 3) a passport. Most of us do not carry our
passports and green cards apply only to resident aliens. Underage cyclists or
non-drivers don't have Motor Vehicle Licenses. You can get a state issued ID
from your DMV but I'm not sure if you can get one issued in addition to your
drivers license.

Failing to identify yourself satisfactorially to the officer can cause
problems. He may be content to accept whatever photo ID you have if he can
verify your current address through your land line phone number. Or, he could
really bust your chops (and waste a lot of his time) by taking you to the
police station for further investigation if he feels that you have otherwise
broken some law. Failure to identify yourself is usually insufficent to get you
detained.

Giving your drivers license to the police in a cycling matter can cause
problems. Even though, in most states, a cycling infraction cannot be counted
against your driving record, there are plenty of cases where they have been
held against it. Getting an offense off your driving record involves money,
time and lawyers plus a knowedgeble judge.

The ACLU provides a handy card at:

http://www.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html

Chris Law
Newark, DE

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:27:29 GMT, Andrew Rakeman
wrote:

This brings up another point. Do you need to carry photo ID when riding
a bicycle in New York?

No, but not uttering a valid ID does cause some inconvenience
for the defendant and the officer:

I had always thought that you didn't, but the other day I was pulled
over for running a red light northbound on Bowery at Spring (Spring ends
in a T at Bowery). The first thing the officer did was ask for ID. I
initially refused and he gave me the story that if I didn't we'd have to
go the station to figure out who I was. He promised that it would take a
few hours. Eventually I gave in and showed him my work ID (a photo ID).
This wasn't enough for him and he wanted to see a state issued ID, so I
showed my drivers license.

It was your choice, identify yourself on the street or be
identified in the station house.

My questions:

1. what did you seriously expect him or her to do, take your word for
who you are?

2. would you complain if asked for ID when boarding a passenger
aircraft? Because they too want to see a valid ID.

Cheers,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are
too high today and tax revenues are too low
and the soundest way to raise revenues in
the long run is to cut rates now. "
--President John F. Kennedy, speech to NY Economic Club, 1962

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

On 12 Nov 2003 18:59:03 -0800, Jym Dyer wrote:

=v= The less said, the better. Don't offer any information
that's outside the applicability of the ticket you were charged
with ("oh yeah, I was also running red lights and smuggling
drugs, and I didn't see the cop there because I was on my
cellphone doing insider trading with Martha Stewart"). Even
if Usenetters bait you into doing so.
_Jym_

LOL!


Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are
too high today and tax revenues are too low
and the soundest way to raise revenues in
the long run is to cut rates now. "
--President John F. Kennedy, speech to NY Economic Club, 1962

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:21:14 GMT, "Ken [NY)" wrote:



2. would you complain if asked for ID when boarding a passenger
aircraft? Because they too want to see a valid ID.

I wish we could complain about that. The fundamental reason that ID is
required on planes is so the airlines can enforce the
non-transferabilty of tickets. They could it in terms of security, but
it's about profit and I wish there was an alternative for consumers
than obeying this rule if they want to fly somewhere.

JT
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged

Visit http://www.jt10000.com
*******************************************

From somewhere in cyberspace, slim said:
Lets not forget the days when Koch had cops giving tickets for
cyclists riding without a bell on the handelbars!

Alas, those days have not left us - this ticket is still handed out
from time to time when cops are "cracking down" on those dangerous
bicyclists.


--
eravin@ | Grief can take care of itself; but to get the full
panix.com | value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with.
| -- Mark Twain

From somewhere in cyberspace, slim said:
Also NEVER give your drivers license as any infractions you are
guilty of while on a bike go on your record.

Doesn't matter, the cops or the DMV will look up your record
and see if they can attach it to your license. It depends on
how the cop writes the ticket up - if he writes it up as a violation
that applies specifically to bikes, by definition the violation cannot
go on your motor vehicle driving record.

Get a NY State "non-driver" ID and carry THAT with you when
you ride.

You are misinformed - NY State will not issue a "non-driver" ID
to someone who holds a valid NY State driver's license or learners
permit.
--
eravin@ | Grief can take care of itself; but to get the full
panix.com | value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with.
| -- Mark Twain