landrider

I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you see on TV

Okay, here's the thing. I guess this shows how we all make assumptions
while the reality may be totally different. For example I thought I wa
posting in a controlled forum on cyclingforums.com, but I see that I'v
been posting through their Bike Café forum into a usenet group. Now
another assumption has been made that I saw an infomercial and dialed u
some 800 number, I presume, credit card in hand. Nope, I've never don
that. I don't know what infomercial you're talking about

One day I did an Internet search on something (can't remember wha
right now, but not bicycles), and I think it took me to some kind o
World Riders site about a CA couple on a world bicycle trek
Somewhere in there I saw something about a Landrider, and a few day
later I remembered the name and did a search, and found their we
site. I'd already had a real waste of money when I bought the onl
adult size bicydle at the local Sears store, so I eventually place
an online order

Now I'd be the last person to say that I've only made smart purchases i
my life. I can immediately think of about $30-40K spent on tw
automobiles that were a disgrace to powered locomotion. I once los
money on some land. I took a real beating on some Ashton-Tate stock on
year. So, if it turns out I've made a horrible mistake here, so be it
You know what, I can afford the $400 it cost me, and I have no way o
measuring just what I should get out of a bicycle per dollar. If I lear
about something better by participating in this forum. Great. But on th
other hand, I've read comments about the Landrider that so far, in m
direct experience, just aren't so. There are people who've said tha
you're in real trouble if you stop fast, because you'll be in a hig
gear, or who are afraid to think what will happen if the shift take
place while standing on the pedal. Now maybe it's because I'm
different sort of cycler than the rest of this crowd, but the point
started to make when I first chimed in, is that there seems to be a lo
of animosity without direct knowledge about this bicycle. None of thos
things have yet happened to me. I ride several miles every morning,
come back and blow off the dust with an air compressor, wipe it dow
with a soft cloth, apply some light oil, and the thing keeps working
and I don't feel lousy like I did with the other bicycle

At what point can you stop worrying about whether I or someone else wa
gullible, or could have gotten something better for less from the non
existent bike shop in my community? At what point can people on this an
other groups stop their vitriolic attack on someone who asks about aut
shifting, treating them like they must be pathetic brain-dead misfits
and rather explain logically to those who ask, what a better alternativ
might be and why? I've had plenty of stick shift autos (a couple of Fia
Spyders stick in my mind). Four or Five on the floor is not something t
fear either, but I bet a bunch of you, like myself, have had some car
with auto transmissions

It was years ago that it became second nature to me to set the len
aperture and shutter speed on a camera without using a meter and get
good shot in most lighting conditions, but that doesn't keep me fro
enjoying using an automatic camera. Because I do professional work,
insist that my automatic has manual controls as well, and a goo
eyepiece for focusing. But if you want to take photos while you bicycl
with some little tyke of a camera that you have to hold at arms lengt
so you can try to frame the shot on a poorly lit LCD screen; I'
confident you're getting a decent shot with your fully automatic tha
satisfies you, even if I could never use one of those for my own work
so I think it's okay for you to use a Sony with a floppy disk in it
barrel distortion in the lens and a center-bright flash with rapid edg
fall-off. Because your use is different than mine. My cycling needs an
probably most of the others inquiring about Landriders is differen
than yours

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will anno
enough people to make it worth the effort." -- Albright



--

Filmboard wrote:
I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you see on TV.

Okay, here's the thing. I guess this shows how we all make
assumptions, while the reality may be totally different. For example
I thought I was posting in a controlled forum on cyclingforums.com,
but I see that I've been posting through their Bike Café forum into a
usenet group. Now, another assumption has been made that I saw an
infomercial and dialed up some 800 number, I presume, credit card in
hand. Nope, I've never done that. I don't know what infomercial
you're talking about.

One day I did an Internet search on something (can't remember what
right now, but not bicycles), and I think it took me to some kind of
World Riders site about a CA couple on a world bicycle trek.
Somewhere in there I saw something about a Landrider, and a few days
later I remembered the name and did a search, and found their web
site. I'd already had a real waste of money when I bought the only
adult size bicydle at the local Sears store, so I eventually placed
an online order.

Now I'd be the last person to say that I've only made smart purchases
in my life. I can immediately think of about $30-40K spent on two
automobiles that were a disgrace to powered locomotion. I once lost
money on some land. I took a real beating on some Ashton-Tate stock
one year. So, if it turns out I've made a horrible mistake here, so
be it. You know what, I can afford the $400 it cost me, and I have no
way of measuring just what I should get out of a bicycle per dollar.
If I learn about something better by participating in this forum.
Great. But on the other hand, I've read comments about the Landrider
that so far, in my direct experience, just aren't so. There are
people who've said that you're in real trouble if you stop fast,
because you'll be in a high gear, or who are afraid to think what
will happen if the shift takes place while standing on the pedal. Now
maybe it's because I'm a different sort of cycler than the rest of
this crowd, but the point I started to make when I first chimed in,
is that there seems to be a lot of animosity without direct knowledge
about this bicycle. None of those things have yet happened to me. I
ride several miles every morning, I come back and blow off the dust
with an air compressor, wipe it down with a soft cloth, apply some
light oil, and the thing keeps working; and I don't feel lousy like I
did with the other bicycle.

At what point can you stop worrying about whether I or someone else
was gullible, or could have gotten something better for less from the
non- existent bike shop in my community? At what point can people on
this and other groups stop their vitriolic attack on someone who asks
about auto shifting, treating them like they must be pathetic
brain-dead misfits, and rather explain logically to those who ask,
what a better alternative might be and why? I've had plenty of stick
shift autos (a couple of Fiat Spyders stick in my mind). Four or Five
on the floor is not something to fear either, but I bet a bunch of
you, like myself, have had some cars with auto transmissions.

It was years ago that it became second nature to me to set the lens
aperture and shutter speed on a camera without using a meter and get a
good shot in most lighting conditions, but that doesn't keep me from
enjoying using an automatic camera. Because I do professional work, I
insist that my automatic has manual controls as well, and a good
eyepiece for focusing. But if you want to take photos while you
bicycle with some little tyke of a camera that you have to hold at
arms length so you can try to frame the shot on a poorly lit LCD
screen; I'm confident you're getting a decent shot with your fully
automatic that satisfies you, even if I could never use one of those
for my own work, so I think it's okay for you to use a Sony with a
floppy disk in it, barrel distortion in the lens and a center-bright
flash with rapid edge fall-off. Because your use is different than
mine. My cycling needs and probably most of the others inquiring
about Landriders is different than yours.

This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment has no place in
this forum. TYVM. (;-) )

Bill "get emotional or get out" S.

wrote:
This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment has no place
in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )
Bill "get emotional or get out" S.


Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with your automati
cameras (I know you have them), even though your pix satisfy your need
the reason they usually won't measure up to my standard is that whil
you're holding your shutter button down half way waiting for all th
automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure and focus), th
good shot has long passed. The relaxed candid look in your friends
faces, the great composition of an action shot. . . all gone. But, yo
and a large percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clea
message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure are wa
beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe that; I just think fo
some good reason, you like the idea of pointing and shooting, keeping i
simple. By the same token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on
bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a concern to me
There will be others down the road that are intrigued by it too. It'
not for you, but you know, it may be just the right thing to get the
out on the road, to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, t
eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike paths. Yo
won't get that to happen if you try to remain elitists. F


-

Filmboard wrote:
wrote:
This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment has
no place in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )
Bill "get emotional or get out" S.



Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with your automatic
cameras (I know you have them), even though your pix satisfy your
need,
the reason they usually won't measure up to my standard is that while
you're holding your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure and focus),
the good shot has long passed. The relaxed candid look in your
friends'
faces, the great composition of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you
and a large percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure are way
beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe that; I just think
for some good reason, you like the idea of pointing and shooting,
keeping it simple. By the same token, I liked the idea of an
automatic shift on a bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not
be a concern to me.
There will be others down the road that are intrigued by it too. It's
not for you, but you know, it may be just the right thing to get them
out on the road, to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike paths. You
won't get that to happen if you try to remain elitists. F.


Not knowing when to shut up. NOW you're getting the hang of this!

Bill "non-attribution quoting style notwithstanding" S.

S O R N I wrote:
Not knowing when to shut up. NOW you're getting the hang of this!
Bill "non-attribution quoting style notwithstanding" S.

Touché


-

"Filmboard" wrote in message
...

Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with your automatic
cameras (I know you have them), even though your pix satisfy your need,
the reason they usually won't measure up to my standard is that while
you're holding your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure and focus), the
good shot has long passed. The relaxed candid look in your friends'
faces, the great composition of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you
and a large percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure are way
beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe that; I just think for
some good reason, you like the idea of pointing and shooting, keeping it
simple. By the same token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a concern to me.
There will be others down the road that are intrigued by it too. It's
not for you, but you know, it may be just the right thing to get them
out on the road, to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike paths. You
won't get that to happen if you try to remain elitists. F.

It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial that touted automatic cameras. That said that people
don't take pictures because focusing is too hard, because the concepts of
aperture and shutter speed are beyond their understanding. That went on for
an hour explaining why traditional cameras are no good, and automatic
cameras are much better in every way.

PLUS -- and here's the kicker -- people are always running out of film.

So they offer you a fixed-focus, plastic-lens point-and-shoot camera with
the **revolutionary** **new** **feature** that is can load two rolls of film
at the same time!

All for only $199.95!

That's how we feel about the Landrider. It's everything they *don't* tell
you about. The cheap, heavy frame. The lack of a variety of frame sizes,
making perfect fit a crap shoot. The generally low-end complement of parts
and fittings. The fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for
less money at a local bike shop.

The extra-special gizmo that makes the Landrider so special solves a problem
that's non-existent for most people once they've spent an hour on a bike. If
ease of shifting is really an issue, buying a quality bike using one of
Shimano's Nexus series of internally-geared hubs, that can be shifted while
stationary and serviced at any bike shop, is a much better solution.

The price you pay for a Landrider pays for marketing and, it seems likely,
immense markups on each unit sold. This bike, if made by Huffy and sold at
WalMart, would retail for $129.

RichC

Rich Clark wrote:
It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.
Imagine an infomercial . . . . The lack of a variety of frame sizes,
making perfect fit a crap shoot. . . The fact that a bike that's better
in every way can be had for less money at a local bike shop.

Here's where you've got the upper hand on me, I guess. I still have n
knowledge of an infomercial. But it's becoming clear that's what ha
most of you so bent out of shape. As for lack of frame sizes, I had m
choice of 12" 14" 15" 17" 18" 19.5" and 22" when I placed my onlin
order (some of those are positioned as women's and some as men's); ho
many more would the LBS provide me? I don't know. And I've made i
abundantly clear in the previous postings, there is no LBS in m
community, and if I have to travel a hundred miles it's no longer
"L"BS, in my opinion. I don't expect you to use one of these bikes, o
even recommend it; but it would be nice if it wasn't totall
misrepresented here. But the public is misrepresented about digita
cameras every day (perhaps not in an infomercial). Ooo, so you got a
megapixel camera; if its acquisition is on a single chip smaller tha
half of your little pinkie fingernail, you have virtually no correc
color and a very sharp tonal curve in your photos, and you have a camer
that is grossly overpriced for what it delivers. And if it's full
automatic, it likely stops the lens down first and then adjusts to th
light with the shutter speed next, so that on a cloudy day or in th
shade when you hold it out in front of you at arms length because the
neglected to insert a $2 eyepiece, you just can't get as sharp a phot
as you should simply because you can't hold it steady out there. If yo
by chance have one of these, you've been misled and are just a
gullible; only an entire industry has gulled you, with more finesse tha
in this infomercial you refer to


-

"Filmboard" wrote in message
...
wrote:
This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment has no
place
in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )
Bill "get emotional or get out" S.

Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with your automatic
cameras (I know you have them), even though your pix satisfy your need,
the reason they usually won't measure up to my standard is that while

Be fair with the analogies. What is the ***same-priced*** alternative that
is vastly superior to my point-and-shoot.

Matthew

\"El Paisano\ wrote:
Be fair with the analogies. What is the ***same-priced*** alternative
that is vastly superior to my point-and-shoot. Matthew


There are hundreds of examples. (I thought I'd find an example in th
same budget range as I paid for a Landrider, and I'll stay away fro
used items for the time being). B&H Photo is currently featuring a Niko
35mm camera $350 with a $50 rebate. $400 without the rebate. It has
28-80mm lens and you'll see that it has a nice piece of glass on th
front which should collect plenty of light for your images. It shoots o
35mm film which can easily net you 28 megapixel images. There ar
WalMarts and Walgreens all over the nation that will give you one-hou
processing and convert your film to digital if that's a need

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...A=getItemDetai
l&Q=&sku=199520&is=USA&si=spec#goto_itemInf

Without going to Circuit City or Costco, on the same site I find
digital point and shoot. In fact, to be as fair in the comparison a
possible I took the first Nikon on the list for the same $400: a Niko
Coolpix 3700, 3.2 Megapixel, 3x Optical/4x Digital Zoom, Point-and
shoot, Digital Camera. This has a 5.4-16.2mm (35-105mm equivalent
lens. What that means is that the diagonal dimension of the acquisitio
chip (replacing the film) is about 7.5 mm or about 1/3 of an inch a
opposed to the 1.8 inches diameter of a frame of 35mm film. And it come
with a wimpy 16MB digital card which will only hold about 2 of the 3.
megapixel images, so you'll have to spend another $50 minimum to get
bigger digital card

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...A=getItemDetai
l&Q=&sku=304026&is=REG&si=spec#goto_itemInf

Now, lest you try to pin some other motive on me, because you've no
read the entire thread. My point is that I'm not going to be critical o
you for your choice of auto point-and-shoot camera as long as it get
you out there capturing some photos. And if you asked me what I though
about your purchasing the second Nikon, I'd probably conclude, jus
because you're asking that it may be the best camera for you (unless
know of another similar one for about the same price that could d
something else you want to do with it. But, the photos you get with th
second Nikon will not be publishable at anywhere near the sizes o
resolutions of what I could shoot with the first Nikon. There are goo
reasons for wanting an automatic digital camera (size, speed of gettin
images into your computer and up on the web or attached to an email (th
I've known plenty of folks who've never figured out the part of th
process that gets the image out of the camera). But if I was going t
limit myself to the same $400 expenditure, I'd choose the first Nikon i
a heartbeat because of the added capability, and because I can'
understand what all the fuss is about setting the exposure and focu
manually is all about. I know you'll be able to dream up all kinds o
holes to poke in my analogy, but I think it's fairer than you'd like t
admit. I have only one gripe that I feel I've been consistent i
maintaining and that is that there is a knee-jerk negative reaction to
bike that most of you have never seen or riden


-

"Filmboard" wrote in message
.. .
\"El Paisano\ wrote:
Be fair with the analogies. What is the ***same-priced*** alternative
that is vastly superior to my point-and-shoot. Matthew

There are hundreds of examples. (I thought I'd find an example in the
same budget range as I paid for a Landrider, and I'll stay away from
used items for the time being). B&H Photo is currently featuring a Nikon
35mm camera $350 with a $50 rebate. $400 without the rebate. It has a

Sorry for being unclear. I paid $70 for my Olympus Stylus Epic (no zoom)
point-and-shoot film camera. Is there another camera at that price-point
that would be superior? I ask this question because most of the people
reading this group could point you to a superior bike for the same amount
you paid for the Landrider.

Matthew