Cannondale Road Warrior 600 - Can this possibly be normal?

I took delivery of a bike tonight from my LBS that I ordered a couple of
weeks ago - a Cannondale Road Warrior 600. Basically this is a flat
handle road bike with Shimano R105 8 speed. The frame is a size medium
CAAD4 frame which should be the proper size for me - I'm around 5' 10".
The only change I had made when ordering this bike was to specify 35mm
tires instead of the 28mm that normally come with it, as I wanted to
make the bike a little more "off road".

The sales guy spent quite a while doing a professional fit to arrive at
the correct seat height, position, handle bar reach etc, and all seemed
to be well. I have good confidence in the staff of this store, and have
purchased bikes from them in the past. I rode around in the parking lot
for a while and didn't notice any problem, so I took the bike home.

Now here's my problem which I only noticed at home: when I turn the
handle bars more than a few degrees, the front tire will hit my foot!
Basically you have to stop pedaling in order to turn the handlebars.
The wheel hits my foot just forward of the ball of my foot around the
base of the toes - in other words the clearance is too short by about 2
inches.

On close examination, it's clear that this happens because the bike has
a short wheel base: at least 1 inch shorter than my 57cm Marinoni, and
around 2 inches shorter than my wife's Giant Hybrid. Now surely I can't
be the first person to have run into this with a Cannondale frame???
Has anyone else heard of this? The CAAD4 frame as I understand it is a
common Cannondale road bike frame. Here's a link to a picture of the
bike: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/c...del-4HR6Y.html

So what say you all? Do I have to learn to ride without turning the
bars? Accomplish every turn by leaning only? Amputate my toes???
I'll be contacting the LBS first thing in the morning, but I'd like to
be armed in advance with more information and opinions from the experts.
Comments anyone?

Perhaps this goes without saying, but you are using either clips or
clipless pedals to keep you feet properly positioned, correct? I almost
always run into this problem if I ride with platform pedals.

Keith Boone wrote:
I took delivery of a bike tonight from my LBS that I ordered a couple of
weeks ago - a Cannondale Road Warrior 600. Basically this is a flat
handle road bike with Shimano R105 8 speed. The frame is a size medium
CAAD4 frame which should be the proper size for me - I'm around 5' 10".
The only change I had made when ordering this bike was to specify 35mm
tires instead of the 28mm that normally come with it, as I wanted to
make the bike a little more "off road".

The sales guy spent quite a while doing a professional fit to arrive at
the correct seat height, position, handle bar reach etc, and all seemed
to be well. I have good confidence in the staff of this store, and have
purchased bikes from them in the past. I rode around in the parking lot
for a while and didn't notice any problem, so I took the bike home.

Now here's my problem which I only noticed at home: when I turn the
handle bars more than a few degrees, the front tire will hit my foot!
Basically you have to stop pedaling in order to turn the handlebars. The
wheel hits my foot just forward of the ball of my foot around the base
of the toes - in other words the clearance is too short by about 2 inches.

On close examination, it's clear that this happens because the bike has
a short wheel base: at least 1 inch shorter than my 57cm Marinoni, and
around 2 inches shorter than my wife's Giant Hybrid. Now surely I can't
be the first person to have run into this with a Cannondale frame??? Has
anyone else heard of this? The CAAD4 frame as I understand it is a
common Cannondale road bike frame. Here's a link to a picture of the
bike: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/c...del-4HR6Y.html

So what say you all? Do I have to learn to ride without turning the
bars? Accomplish every turn by leaning only? Amputate my toes???
I'll be contacting the LBS first thing in the morning, but I'd like to
be armed in advance with more information and opinions from the experts.
Comments anyone?

Keith Boone wrote:
I took delivery of a bike tonight from my LBS that I ordered a couple of
weeks ago - a Cannondale Road Warrior 600. Basically this is a flat
handle road bike with Shimano R105 8 speed. The frame is a size medium
CAAD4 frame which should be the proper size for me - I'm around 5' 10".
The only change I had made when ordering this bike was to specify 35mm
tires instead of the 28mm that normally come with it, as I wanted to
make the bike a little more "off road".

The sales guy spent quite a while doing a professional fit to arrive at
the correct seat height, position, handle bar reach etc, and all seemed
to be well. I have good confidence in the staff of this store, and have
purchased bikes from them in the past. I rode around in the parking lot
for a while and didn't notice any problem, so I took the bike home.

Now here's my problem which I only noticed at home: when I turn the
handle bars more than a few degrees, the front tire will hit my foot!
Basically you have to stop pedaling in order to turn the handlebars. The
wheel hits my foot just forward of the ball of my foot around the base
of the toes - in other words the clearance is too short by about 2 inches.

On close examination, it's clear that this happens because the bike has
a short wheel base: at least 1 inch shorter than my 57cm Marinoni, and
around 2 inches shorter than my wife's Giant Hybrid. Now surely I can't
be the first person to have run into this with a Cannondale frame??? Has
anyone else heard of this? The CAAD4 frame as I understand it is a
common Cannondale road bike frame. Here's a link to a picture of the
bike: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/c...del-4HR6Y.html

So what say you all? Do I have to learn to ride without turning the
bars? Accomplish every turn by leaning only? Amputate my toes???
I'll be contacting the LBS first thing in the morning, but I'd like to
be armed in advance with more information and opinions from the experts.
Comments anyone?

It depends on the geometry of the bike, but yes, this is common on some
models and not just Cannondales. When you are riding, how much do you
actually turn the handlebars? I hardly turn mine at all except at very
low speeds.

Collin wrote:
Perhaps this goes without saying, but you are using either clips or
clipless pedals to keep you feet properly positioned, correct? I almost
always run into this problem if I ride with platform pedals.


The bike came with toe clips, and the overlap problem was quite
noticeable. I removed these and put on my Speedplay Frogs, and now the
overlap is not quite as bad. The thing is, I had planned to make this
my commuting bike, with fat tires and fenders. Now I'm thinking fenders
are out of the question. I'm starting to think I've made a bad mistake.

Threeducks wrote:


It depends on the geometry of the bike, but yes, this is common on some
models and not just Cannondales. When you are riding, how much do you
actually turn the handlebars? I hardly turn mine at all except at very
low speeds.

Yes I see what you mean. I guess this would only be a problem at low
speed, but the damn thing just feels unsafe to me now. I was moving
very slowly when I first noticed the problem - just circling around in a
parking lot, running through the gears and checking out the new bike. I
suppose in normal riding this won't be a problem? I'm a little freaked
out by this - 4 other bikes in the garage, and none of them are like
this. I thought I had researched this purchase throughly, but obviously
not. :-(

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 03:00:28 GMT, Keith Boone
wrote:

Collin wrote:
Perhaps this goes without saying, but you are using either clips or
clipless pedals to keep you feet properly positioned, correct? I almost
always run into this problem if I ride with platform pedals.


The bike came with toe clips, and the overlap problem was quite
noticeable. I removed these and put on my Speedplay Frogs, and now the
overlap is not quite as bad. The thing is, I had planned to make this
my commuting bike, with fat tires and fenders. Now I'm thinking fenders
are out of the question. I'm starting to think I've made a bad mistake.

The hard question for you is if this overlap problem is a real issue
when riding. Hard in that if you are gong to trade/sell the bike, the
less miles you put on the better.

I have toe overlap problems on a couple of different commuter bikes.
And yes, fenders made it worse. BUT- so what? Whenever I am going slow
enough for it to even be an issue, it's very easy to get my foot out
of the way. It becomes almost automatic to put the correct foot
forward depending on which way the fork is turned. I haven't noticed
it in months, and the only time I do notice it is when I have been off
a bike for a long time and first get back on it.

There isn't an easy answer, and I feel for you. Those Cannondale
bikes are sweet and a new bike should be a pleasure without such
doubts. If the bike is what you want in every way except this problem,
I'd suggest that you keep it. You *will* learn to avoid the overlap,
and the times that it is a real issue are very rare..... unless you
are planning on a lot of technical off-road where the option to move a
foot while going slow isn't always a good idea. Then again, if you are
planning a lot of technical off-road stuff, a bike with 'road' in its
name should have told you a little something?

In article ers.com,
Keith Boone wrote:

I took delivery of a bike tonight from my LBS that I ordered a couple of
weeks ago - a Cannondale Road Warrior 600. Basically this is a flat
handle road bike with Shimano R105 8 speed. The frame is a size medium
CAAD4 frame which should be the proper size for me - I'm around 5' 10".

(toe overlap)

On close examination, it's clear that this happens because the bike has
a short wheel base: at least 1 inch shorter than my 57cm Marinoni, and
around 2 inches shorter than my wife's Giant Hybrid. Now surely I can't
be the first person to have run into this with a Cannondale frame???
Has anyone else heard of this? The CAAD4 frame as I understand it is a
common Cannondale road bike frame. Here's a link to a picture of the
bike: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/c...del-4HR6Y.html

So what say you all? Do I have to learn to ride without turning the
bars? Accomplish every turn by leaning only? Amputate my toes???
I'll be contacting the LBS first thing in the morning, but I'd like to
be armed in advance with more information and opinions from the experts.
Comments anyone?

This is essentially normal for short guys like me who aren't quite small
enough to ride 650C wheels. The basic issue is that on smaller, racier
frames (you know, the ones that wear hardly anything) the wheel is
within toeing distance of the toes.

I exacerbate this with a fairly rearward cleat position on my shoes, but
the solution is to not worry about it. You can't pedal very hard with
your front wheel turned to any degree, so this is only a concern when
doing a trackstand, at which point sometimes you have to backpedal to
get out of the way of the wheel.

I just live with it on both of my road bikes: I just don't fret when my
toe touches my tire. This has never happened except during a trackstand,
so it's not a big deal.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

I have this problem as well and have learnt to live with it. I am 5'8" on a
52cm frame.
The worst part is that the finish on my Time Challenge Carbon shoes is
wearing off at the toe.

Is that a good excuse to buy a new pair of SIDI Geius 4s?

Bow

Keith Boone wrote:

I took delivery of a bike tonight from my LBS that I ordered a couple of
weeks ago - a Cannondale Road Warrior 600. Basically this is a flat
handle road bike with Shimano R105 8 speed. The frame is a size medium
CAAD4 frame which should be the proper size for me - I'm around 5' 10".
The only change I had made when ordering this bike was to specify 35mm
tires instead of the 28mm that normally come with it, as I wanted to
make the bike a little more "off road".

The sales guy spent quite a while doing a professional fit to arrive at
the correct seat height, position, handle bar reach etc, and all seemed
to be well. I have good confidence in the staff of this store, and have
purchased bikes from them in the past. I rode around in the parking lot
for a while and didn't notice any problem, so I took the bike home.

Now here's my problem which I only noticed at home: when I turn the
handle bars more than a few degrees, the front tire will hit my foot!
Basically you have to stop pedaling in order to turn the handlebars. The
wheel hits my foot just forward of the ball of my foot around the base
of the toes - in other words the clearance is too short by about 2 inches.

On close examination, it's clear that this happens because the bike has
a short wheel base: at least 1 inch shorter than my 57cm Marinoni, and
around 2 inches shorter than my wife's Giant Hybrid. Now surely I can't
be the first person to have run into this with a Cannondale frame??? Has
anyone else heard of this? The CAAD4 frame as I understand it is a
common Cannondale road bike frame. Here's a link to a picture of the
bike: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/c...del-4HR6Y.html

So what say you all? Do I have to learn to ride without turning the
bars? Accomplish every turn by leaning only? Amputate my toes???
I'll be contacting the LBS first thing in the morning, but I'd like to
be armed in advance with more information and opinions from the experts.
Comments anyone?

We had a pretty good discussion about this two weeks ago. Go to
groups.google.com and search this NG for "Front wheel to shoe clearance,
or lack of".

You'll see quite a few people there (including myself) that say it
doesn't make a hoot of difference whether you have overlap or not.

I have lots of overlap because my fit requires me to have a shorter top
tube on my road bike. If the toe hits the wheel, it is of no consequence.

Think of the track riders. they often have lots of overlap, ride real
slow on the curves (during the first laps of the sprint), do trackstands
.. . . no problem for them either.

Believe me, you have *not* made a mistake by buying this frame.

/Robert

The bike came with toe clips, and the overlap problem was quite
noticeable. I removed these and put on my Speedplay Frogs, and now the

overlap is not quite as bad. The thing is, I had planned to make this
my commuting bike, with fat tires and fenders. Now I'm thinking fenders

are out of the question. I'm starting to think I've made a bad mistake.

Overlap is an overstated "problem." At anything over a walking pace it's a
non-issue. You just don't turn the wheel enough to hit it.
Phil Brown