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  #111  
Old August 16th 18, 07:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default Flat repair

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.


I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou
Ads
  #112  
Old August 16th 18, 09:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou


But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.

  #113  
Old August 16th 18, 10:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default Flat repair

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou


But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.


Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou
  #114  
Old August 16th 18, 11:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,685
Default Flat repair

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 5:40:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped
Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou


What about putting tire sealant into a tube before you flat? Isn't that what tire sealants are for?

With Schrader valves it's easy to put in tire sealant; with Presta valves it's easier if you have a removable valve core on the tube although it can be done with a non-removable valve core if the person putting in the tire sealant is careful.

Cheers
  #115  
Old August 16th 18, 12:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou


But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.


Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou


Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.
  #116  
Old August 16th 18, 12:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 03:56:30 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 5:40:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped
Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou


What about putting tire sealant into a tube before you flat? Isn't that what tire sealants are for?

With Schrader valves it's easy to put in tire sealant; with Presta valves it's easier if you have a removable valve core on the tube although it can be done with a non-removable valve core if the person putting in the tire sealant is careful.

Cheers


The famous "Green Goop" sealant costs about $2.20 a wheel (Amazon) and
takes only a few minutes to install.

Green Goop apparently was originally concocted for the early off the
road bunch (late 1980's) and apparently is a success as it is still
being sold.

Two Bucks a wheel (Plus tube) is certainly cheaper then a tubeless
tire and wheel will be :-)

  #117  
Old August 16th 18, 02:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default Flat repair

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou

But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.


Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou


Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.


Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop.

Lou
  #118  
Old August 16th 18, 03:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou

But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.

Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou


Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.


Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop.

Lou


I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a little
optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you
smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds.
  #119  
Old August 16th 18, 03:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default Flat repair

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou

But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.

Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou

Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.


Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop.

Lou


I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats.


It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires?

It is a little
optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you
smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds.


I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem.

Lou

  #120  
Old August 16th 18, 04:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default Flat repair

On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18
wrote:
On 14/08/18 08:48,
wrote:
Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch
kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump
because it seems romantic to you.

Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless
systems compared
to the old tyre and tube system.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology
used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is
not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue,
don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to
their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test
conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far
easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a
motorcycles.
+++
How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles"
are not driven by
an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out
shopping trolleys.
.

Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the
weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so
reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather
than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of
similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier
was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that
has minimal rolling resistance in the tests.

I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six
personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique
stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel
sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them
all to tubeless?

I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down
that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a
compelling advantage.

Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if
there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix
bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the
goop.


If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire
with out goop, we'd all ride them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.

Lou

But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main
argument for using tubeless.

Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant.

Lou

Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been
making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for
about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that
although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel.

Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop.

Lou


I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats.


It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires?

It is a little
optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you
smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds.


I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem.


+1

 




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