on topic, training.

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.

http://www.fasterskier.com/training.php?id=671

The Norwegian Women’s Team, coached by Svein Tore Samdal, has taken this
new research to the test. The team early this year got support and
funding for a so-called high intensity project. This project involved
doing high-intensity training as described above in time-blocks
throughout the year. In blocks of about 10-12 days the team would do
extensive and frequent 4-minute interval sessions, as often as every day
(and even twice a day). The intervals were done in different activities,
rollerskiing, running, bicycling, or ski-bounding/moose-huffs, to make
the training more interesting for the athletes. A team of coaches,
doctors and physiologists checked the athletes’ heart rates, lactate and
other blood values during these tough training periods. The athletes
were able to recover and rest in-between the sessions due to being in a
training-camp situation.

In late August it was reported that the average VO2max improvement (4
ml/kg/min or about 6% increase) had exceeded improvements that in
earlier years had taken the whole fall to reach. It is also observed
that the athletes are able to run/ski further over a 4-minute interval,
or being able to run/ski as fast as earlier, but with a much lower heart
rate.

In between these 10 – 12 days long time-blocks, the athletes’ training
would be much easier and “normal”. However, due to additional research
advice, the team continues to include 2-interval sessions per week to
maintain their higher max VO2.

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...
Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.

This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals and
duration while cycling.

-WG

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...
Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.

This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals and
duration while cycling.

-WG

Warren wrote:

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals and
duration while cycling.

-WG


so what are you saying, that it wouldn't work for cyclists? Why?

Why doesn't this type of training stress the muscular system and CNS and
why would it be different with cycling? I'd argue that XC skiing
requires more skill than a pedal stroke does.

Warren wrote:

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals and
duration while cycling.

-WG


so what are you saying, that it wouldn't work for cyclists? Why?

Why doesn't this type of training stress the muscular system and CNS and
why would it be different with cycling? I'd argue that XC skiing
requires more skill than a pedal stroke does.

"gym gravity" wrote ...
Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.

No word on the length of the "in between" periods. If fitness increases
during rest, I'd expect to see specifics on how long the in between periods
are.

Thanks for that link though.

JF

"gym gravity" wrote ...
Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.

No word on the length of the "in between" periods. If fitness increases
during rest, I'd expect to see specifics on how long the in between periods
are.

Thanks for that link though.

JF

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...
Warren wrote:

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals
and
duration while cycling.

-WG


so what are you saying, that it wouldn't work for cyclists? Why?

I think it would be harder for cyclists to recover enough from day to day
because in XC skiing you are often limited by how much oxygen you can
process and dealing with higher total amounts of lactate. Keep in mind
you're using many more muscle groups while skiing.

While skiing you have to slow down, or rest to catch your breath as it
were, before continuing, and this often happens before your muscles are even
close to exhausted. Since this training is limited mostly by oxygen
requirements your muscles and CNS won't be stressed as much as if you were
doing VO2max training on a bike day after day. In my own experience with xc
ski training and racing I would often go as hard as possible one day and be
nearly completely recovered by the next day. When I go that hard on the bike
it takes at least one more day than that to recover.

In my own training this year leading up to track Nat's and track Worlds I
did VO2max-type training during 4 or 5 sessions per week, but the key is
that I did most of it at high rpm's to minimize, or reduce the stress on my
muscles so that I could do this training more frequently.

Why doesn't this type of training stress the muscular system and CNS

It does, just not as much as in cycling, assuming you're not doing a large
proportion of the xc training while going uphill. I think the lower
frequency of repetitions (speed of the movements) is a reason why XC ski
training would not stress the CNS as much as doing something like sprints or
other very high intensity on the bike. The CNS thing is small compared to
the muscular stress.

I'd argue that XC skiing
requires more skill than a pedal stroke does.

Okay, but I don't see what "skill" has to do with recovery from training.

Maybe JT has some ideas about this since he has also done lots of xc skiing.

-WG

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...
Warren wrote:

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals
and
duration while cycling.

-WG


so what are you saying, that it wouldn't work for cyclists? Why?

I think it would be harder for cyclists to recover enough from day to day
because in XC skiing you are often limited by how much oxygen you can
process and dealing with higher total amounts of lactate. Keep in mind
you're using many more muscle groups while skiing.

While skiing you have to slow down, or rest to catch your breath as it
were, before continuing, and this often happens before your muscles are even
close to exhausted. Since this training is limited mostly by oxygen
requirements your muscles and CNS won't be stressed as much as if you were
doing VO2max training on a bike day after day. In my own experience with xc
ski training and racing I would often go as hard as possible one day and be
nearly completely recovered by the next day. When I go that hard on the bike
it takes at least one more day than that to recover.

In my own training this year leading up to track Nat's and track Worlds I
did VO2max-type training during 4 or 5 sessions per week, but the key is
that I did most of it at high rpm's to minimize, or reduce the stress on my
muscles so that I could do this training more frequently.

Why doesn't this type of training stress the muscular system and CNS

It does, just not as much as in cycling, assuming you're not doing a large
proportion of the xc training while going uphill. I think the lower
frequency of repetitions (speed of the movements) is a reason why XC ski
training would not stress the CNS as much as doing something like sprints or
other very high intensity on the bike. The CNS thing is small compared to
the muscular stress.

I'd argue that XC skiing
requires more skill than a pedal stroke does.

Okay, but I don't see what "skill" has to do with recovery from training.

Maybe JT has some ideas about this since he has also done lots of xc skiing.

-WG

Warren wrote:

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...

Warren wrote:


"gym gravity" wrote in message
...


Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals

and

duration while cycling.

-WG



so what are you saying, that it wouldn't work for cyclists? Why?


I think it would be harder for cyclists to recover enough from day to day
because in XC skiing you are often limited by how much oxygen you can
process and dealing with higher total amounts of lactate. Keep in mind
you're using many more muscle groups while skiing.

While skiing you have to slow down, or rest to catch your breath as it
were, before continuing, and this often happens before your muscles are even
close to exhausted. Since this training is limited mostly by oxygen
requirements your muscles and CNS won't be stressed as much as if you were
doing VO2max training on a bike day after day. In my own experience with xc
ski training and racing I would often go as hard as possible one day and be
nearly completely recovered by the next day. When I go that hard on the bike
it takes at least one more day than that to recover.

In my own training this year leading up to track Nat's and track Worlds I
did VO2max-type training during 4 or 5 sessions per week, but the key is
that I did most of it at high rpm's to minimize, or reduce the stress on my
muscles so that I could do this training more frequently.


Why doesn't this type of training stress the muscular system and CNS


It does, just not as much as in cycling, assuming you're not doing a large
proportion of the xc training while going uphill. I think the lower
frequency of repetitions (speed of the movements) is a reason why XC ski
training would not stress the CNS as much as doing something like sprints or
other very high intensity on the bike. The CNS thing is small compared to
the muscular stress.


I'd argue that XC skiing
requires more skill than a pedal stroke does.


Okay, but I don't see what "skill" has to do with recovery from training.

Maybe JT has some ideas about this since he has also done lots of xc skiing.

-WG


Thanks, the thing I was saying about skill was in regard to CNS.