on topic, training.

Warren wrote:

"gym gravity" wrote in message
...

Warren wrote:


"gym gravity" wrote in message
...


Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


This type of training for xc country skiing really stresses the
cardiovascular system but not so much the muscular and central nervous
system, so recovery would tend to be better than with similar intervals

and

duration while cycling.

-WG



so what are you saying, that it wouldn't work for cyclists? Why?


I think it would be harder for cyclists to recover enough from day to day
because in XC skiing you are often limited by how much oxygen you can
process and dealing with higher total amounts of lactate. Keep in mind
you're using many more muscle groups while skiing.

While skiing you have to slow down, or rest to catch your breath as it
were, before continuing, and this often happens before your muscles are even
close to exhausted. Since this training is limited mostly by oxygen
requirements your muscles and CNS won't be stressed as much as if you were
doing VO2max training on a bike day after day. In my own experience with xc
ski training and racing I would often go as hard as possible one day and be
nearly completely recovered by the next day. When I go that hard on the bike
it takes at least one more day than that to recover.

In my own training this year leading up to track Nat's and track Worlds I
did VO2max-type training during 4 or 5 sessions per week, but the key is
that I did most of it at high rpm's to minimize, or reduce the stress on my
muscles so that I could do this training more frequently.


Why doesn't this type of training stress the muscular system and CNS


It does, just not as much as in cycling, assuming you're not doing a large
proportion of the xc training while going uphill. I think the lower
frequency of repetitions (speed of the movements) is a reason why XC ski
training would not stress the CNS as much as doing something like sprints or
other very high intensity on the bike. The CNS thing is small compared to
the muscular stress.


I'd argue that XC skiing
requires more skill than a pedal stroke does.


Okay, but I don't see what "skill" has to do with recovery from training.

Maybe JT has some ideas about this since he has also done lots of xc skiing.

-WG


Thanks, the thing I was saying about skill was in regard to CNS.

gym gravity wrote:

In blocks of about 10-12 days the team would do
extensive and frequent 4-minute interval sessions, as often as every day
(and even twice a day). The intervals were done in different activities,
rollerskiing, running, bicycling, or ski-bounding/moose-huffs, to make
the training more interesting for the athletes.

Never mind the training questions. I'm interested in the moose-huffs.
How exactly do you huff a moose? And is it better than aerosols or
whippets?

Ben
Now I wanna sniff some glue

P.S. Seems that they showed doing a lot of 4 minute intervals improves
your performance over 4 minute periods. Specificity ...

gym gravity wrote:

In blocks of about 10-12 days the team would do
extensive and frequent 4-minute interval sessions, as often as every day
(and even twice a day). The intervals were done in different activities,
rollerskiing, running, bicycling, or ski-bounding/moose-huffs, to make
the training more interesting for the athletes.

Never mind the training questions. I'm interested in the moose-huffs.
How exactly do you huff a moose? And is it better than aerosols or
whippets?

Ben
Now I wanna sniff some glue

P.S. Seems that they showed doing a lot of 4 minute intervals improves
your performance over 4 minute periods. Specificity ...

Benjamin Weiner wrote:


Never mind the training questions. I'm interested in the moose-huffs.
How exactly do you huff a moose? And is it better than aerosols or
whippets?

I was wondering where I was going to find a moose down here...

P.S. Seems that they showed doing a lot of 4 minute intervals improves
your performance over 4 minute periods. Specificity ...

Consider a road racing pack doing steady state at 40kph.
Your break goes with a jump then a sustained effort at 50kph.

40kph for 4 mins = 2.66km
50kph for 4 mins = 3.33km

Your break is now 0.67km ahead on the road. The pack at steady state
will take 1 min to cover that extra distance. So you have a lead of 1
minute and you can revert to steady state. The sustained effort after
the initial jump is what gives the break a chance to succeed.

(If, of course, there is no reaction from the bunch...but if it's the
7th attack that day...who knows?)

On a different tack, Eddy B recommended never doing more than 2km
intervals for time trial preparation. For much the same reason as given
in the article - recovery is easier.

Benjamin Weiner wrote:


Never mind the training questions. I'm interested in the moose-huffs.
How exactly do you huff a moose? And is it better than aerosols or
whippets?

I was wondering where I was going to find a moose down here...

P.S. Seems that they showed doing a lot of 4 minute intervals improves
your performance over 4 minute periods. Specificity ...

Consider a road racing pack doing steady state at 40kph.
Your break goes with a jump then a sustained effort at 50kph.

40kph for 4 mins = 2.66km
50kph for 4 mins = 3.33km

Your break is now 0.67km ahead on the road. The pack at steady state
will take 1 min to cover that extra distance. So you have a lead of 1
minute and you can revert to steady state. The sustained effort after
the initial jump is what gives the break a chance to succeed.

(If, of course, there is no reaction from the bunch...but if it's the
7th attack that day...who knows?)

On a different tack, Eddy B recommended never doing more than 2km
intervals for time trial preparation. For much the same reason as given
in the article - recovery is easier.

Jim Flom wrote:
"gym gravity" wrote ...

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


No word on the length of the "in between" periods. If fitness increases
during rest, I'd expect to see specifics on how long the in between periods
are.

Thanks for that link though.

JF


I was under the impression that they would do these blocks once every
3-5 weeks or so, but I think I read that somewhere else. The in-between
periods were more like a normal regime, mostly endurance, with only 2
VO2 sessions a week, including a race.

Personally, now, I've moved on to non-training. I just ride hard or
long or both on my way to and from work every day. By Saturday all I
want to do is eat.

Jim Flom wrote:
"gym gravity" wrote ...

Cross country skiers are doing blocks of 10-12 days with VO2 intervals
almost every day. 10-12 days!!! Seems like a great thing for fattie
'merkin crit masters.


No word on the length of the "in between" periods. If fitness increases
during rest, I'd expect to see specifics on how long the in between periods
are.

Thanks for that link though.

JF


I was under the impression that they would do these blocks once every
3-5 weeks or so, but I think I read that somewhere else. The in-between
periods were more like a normal regime, mostly endurance, with only 2
VO2 sessions a week, including a race.

Personally, now, I've moved on to non-training. I just ride hard or
long or both on my way to and from work every day. By Saturday all I
want to do is eat.

gym gravity wrote:

By Saturday all I want to do is eat.

And drink: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/rate_results/94/273/

gym gravity wrote:

By Saturday all I want to do is eat.

And drink: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/rate_results/94/273/

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:37:41 -0500, gym gravity
wrote:

gym gravity wrote:

By Saturday all I want to do is eat.

And drink: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/rate_results/94/273/


http://www.internetwines.com/mb311504.html

Public service, for the Brits reading:

http://www.bibacity.co.uk/shop/catal...n-p-16354.html

It will even pre-filter political discussions on rbr. By the second
shot, you can't read anything, so you may as well load Kozmic Blues on
the CD player and give it up.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...