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Cycling: almost actual science
https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#2
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Cycling: almost actual science
On 5/10/2019 12:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ I heard about that elsewhere. So it's another claim that striped bike lanes are dangerous. In other words, the segregation advocates that have been touting those lanes for decades are now admitting they were wrong. But they want barrier separations everywhere. Even though any rational analysis shows they are impossible to build on even 1% of our roads. And they are ignoring the studies that have clearly shown significant increases in crashes from "protected" bike lanes, like this one from Ohio: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/engineeri...oorhead_72.pdf Or the pile of studies collected by John Franklin. See http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html -- - Frank Krygowski |
#3
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Cycling: almost actual science
On 5/10/2019 2:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/10/2019 12:39 PM, AMuzi wrote: https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ I heard about that elsewhere. So it's another claim that striped bike lanes are dangerous. In other words, the segregation advocates that have been touting those lanes for decades are now admitting they were wrong. But they want barrier separations everywhere. Even though any rational analysis shows they are impossible to build on even 1% of our roads. And they are ignoring the studies that have clearly shown significant increases in crashes from "protected" bike lanes, like this one from Ohio: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/engineeri...oorhead_72.pdf Or the pile of studies collected by John Franklin. See http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html Anyone who's seen an inside fastball brush a batter only to have a strike called will question the 'methodology' of evaluating close passes. I have no idea but I doubt the 'researchers' do either. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#4
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Cycling: almost actual science
On 5/10/2019 9:39 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ Interesting. The photo implies that they're talking about the trend to paint bike lanes. In my area it's green, apparently in Australia it's blue. Or are they talking about just a bike lane that has a stripe between the vehicle lanes and the shoulder, with the shoulder serving as an unpainted bike lane? It's not clear. What I see with the non-separated bike lanes is that the safety issue is that vehicles constantly intrude on the bike lane for various purposes, mostly illegal (as I pointed out in a post yesterday, complete with photos). It would be nice if paint were sufficient to keep vehicles out, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. In any case, I'm glad that the people that have been opposing separated infrastructure, for whatever strange reason, have been proven wrong (by at least one study). The two Johns are not going to be happy! Not that it's going to stop their believers from screaming "danger danger" at every opportunity! |
#5
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Cycling: almost actual science
sms wrote:
On 5/10/2019 9:39 AM, AMuzi wrote: https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ Interesting. The photo implies that they're talking about the trend to paint bike lanes. In my area it's green, apparently in Australia it's blue. Or are they talking about just a bike lane that has a stripe between the vehicle lanes and the shoulder, with the shoulder serving as an unpainted bike lane? It's not clear. What I see with the non-separated bike lanes is that the safety issue is that vehicles constantly intrude on the bike lane for various purposes, mostly illegal (as I pointed out in a post yesterday, complete with photos). It would be nice if paint were sufficient to keep vehicles out, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Last time I went down was because the guy in front of me did a Frome on some paint on a wet road. Not my favourite idea. In any case, I'm glad that the people that have been opposing separated infrastructure, for whatever strange reason, have been proven wrong (by at least one study). The two Johns are not going to be happy! Not that it's going to stop their believers from screaming "danger danger" at every opportunity! -- duane |
#6
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Cycling: almost actual science
On Fri, 10 May 2019 15:22:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/10/2019 2:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/10/2019 12:39 PM, AMuzi wrote: https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ I heard about that elsewhere. So it's another claim that striped bike lanes are dangerous. In other words, the segregation advocates that have been touting those lanes for decades are now admitting they were wrong. But they want barrier separations everywhere. Even though any rational analysis shows they are impossible to build on even 1% of our roads. And they are ignoring the studies that have clearly shown significant increases in crashes from "protected" bike lanes, like this one from Ohio: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/engineeri...oorhead_72.pdf Or the pile of studies collected by John Franklin. See http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html Anyone who's seen an inside fastball brush a batter only to have a strike called will question the 'methodology' of evaluating close passes. I have no idea but I doubt the 'researchers' do either. One study was done in England, I believe, using some sort of ultrasonic distance sensor. See http://drianwalker.com/overtaking/ In another study he makes an interesting comment about bicycle helmets: " suggesting that bicyclists must buy and wear protective devices to remain safe is no different from suggesting non-smokers must buy and wear gas-masks as a solution to passive smoking. In both cases, these are solutions that technically "work", but they place all the responsibility for action - and a financial burden - on the non-consenting injured party. In the case of bicycle helmets, it is, moreover, a "solution" that serves to maintain a status quo in which people choosing a healthy, clean and socially responsible mode of travel are systematically marginalised in their competition for limited public space with those who have chosen to use motor vehicles". -- cheers, John B. |
#7
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Cycling: almost actual science
On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 8:00:58 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 10 May 2019 15:22:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 5/10/2019 2:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/10/2019 12:39 PM, AMuzi wrote: https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ I heard about that elsewhere. So it's another claim that striped bike lanes are dangerous. In other words, the segregation advocates that have been touting those lanes for decades are now admitting they were wrong. But they want barrier separations everywhere. Even though any rational analysis shows they are impossible to build on even 1% of our roads. And they are ignoring the studies that have clearly shown significant increases in crashes from "protected" bike lanes, like this one from Ohio: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/engineeri...oorhead_72.pdf Or the pile of studies collected by John Franklin. See http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html Anyone who's seen an inside fastball brush a batter only to have a strike called will question the 'methodology' of evaluating close passes. I have no idea but I doubt the 'researchers' do either. One study was done in England, I believe, using some sort of ultrasonic distance sensor. See http://drianwalker.com/overtaking/ In another study he makes an interesting comment about bicycle helmets: " suggesting that bicyclists must buy and wear protective devices to remain safe is no different from suggesting non-smokers must buy and wear gas-masks as a solution to passive smoking. In both cases, these are solutions that technically "work", but they place all the responsibility for action - and a financial burden - on the non-consenting injured party. In the case of bicycle helmets, it is, moreover, a "solution" that serves to maintain a status quo in which people choosing a healthy, clean and socially responsible mode of travel are systematically marginalised in their competition for limited public space with those who have chosen to use motor vehicles". -- cheers, John B. "Finally, when the (male) experimenter wore a long wig, so that he appeared female from behind, drivers left more space when passing." I may start wearing a wig. :-) Andy |
#8
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Cycling: almost actual science
On Fri, 10 May 2019 18:16:54 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 8:00:58 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote: On Fri, 10 May 2019 15:22:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 5/10/2019 2:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/10/2019 12:39 PM, AMuzi wrote: https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ I heard about that elsewhere. So it's another claim that striped bike lanes are dangerous. In other words, the segregation advocates that have been touting those lanes for decades are now admitting they were wrong. But they want barrier separations everywhere. Even though any rational analysis shows they are impossible to build on even 1% of our roads. And they are ignoring the studies that have clearly shown significant increases in crashes from "protected" bike lanes, like this one from Ohio: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/engineeri...oorhead_72.pdf Or the pile of studies collected by John Franklin. See http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/research.html Anyone who's seen an inside fastball brush a batter only to have a strike called will question the 'methodology' of evaluating close passes. I have no idea but I doubt the 'researchers' do either. One study was done in England, I believe, using some sort of ultrasonic distance sensor. See http://drianwalker.com/overtaking/ In another study he makes an interesting comment about bicycle helmets: " suggesting that bicyclists must buy and wear protective devices to remain safe is no different from suggesting non-smokers must buy and wear gas-masks as a solution to passive smoking. In both cases, these are solutions that technically "work", but they place all the responsibility for action - and a financial burden - on the non-consenting injured party. In the case of bicycle helmets, it is, moreover, a "solution" that serves to maintain a status quo in which people choosing a healthy, clean and socially responsible mode of travel are systematically marginalised in their competition for limited public space with those who have chosen to use motor vehicles". -- cheers, John B. "Finally, when the (male) experimenter wore a long wig, so that he appeared female from behind, drivers left more space when passing." I may start wearing a wig. :-) Andy I believe that the best incentive was a jacket with "POLICE" on the back. -- cheers, John B. |
#9
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Cycling: almost actual science
On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 2:28:59 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/10/2019 9:39 AM, AMuzi wrote: https://cyclingindustry.news/painted...science-paper/ Interesting. The photo implies that they're talking about the trend to paint bike lanes. In my area it's green, apparently in Australia it's blue. Or are they talking about just a bike lane that has a stripe between the vehicle lanes and the shoulder, with the shoulder serving as an unpainted bike lane? It's not clear. What I see with the non-separated bike lanes is that the safety issue is that vehicles constantly intrude on the bike lane for various purposes, mostly illegal (as I pointed out in a post yesterday, complete with photos). It would be nice if paint were sufficient to keep vehicles out, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. In any case, I'm glad that the people that have been opposing separated infrastructure, for whatever strange reason, have been proven wrong (by at least one study). The two Johns are not going to be happy! Not that it's going to stop their believers from screaming "danger danger" at every opportunity! My experience is that while there are drivers that drive in dangerous manners, that is an enforcement failure and not that of bike lanes. Most drivers will give bicyclists FAR more room on a road with bike lanes than nothing or "sharrows". There is a local road that has a bike lane on it that just peters out. The road width does not change but as soon as that lane ends you can see the cars drifting over and away from the lane divider. Having done the Tierra Bella and a couple of weeks later suffered on the Grizzly Peak metric which I was forced to reduce to the half century the problem was not drivers on either of those rides but moronic bicyclists who believe that they are in a peleton and will almost touch elbows passing. Locally on the South end of Skyline Blvd, there are two lanes with a three foot divider and two the opposite direction. There are no bicycle lanes there though over a large part of it there is enough room. Though traffic is light they will very seldom use the middle lane to pass - they will pass in the lane the bicycle is riding on the right of. So it is my belief that bike lanes have a very positive value. Perhaps this pertains more to Aussies who are in general large pains in the butts to begin with? |
#10
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Cycling: almost actual science
On Fri, 10 May 2019 18:16:54 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote: "Finally, when the (male) experimenter wore a long wig, so that he appeared female from behind, drivers left more space when passing." I may start wearing a wig. :-) Perhaps I should stop braiding my hair -- but loose hair is an enormous nuisance and may even obscure one's vision. I'll stick to wobbling to the left as soon as the driver is close enough to see me do it. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/` |
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