First cyclocross race - race my mtn bike or touring bike?

On Nov 9, 4:12 pm, Scott wrote:


Why, other than habit, is a low BB contra-indicated for a 'cross
bike? I know that the Euro guys don't like low BB,but I wonder why?

I recently switched from a 'traditional' cross frame (Redline Team) to
a Lemond Poprad with a BB 3/4" lower than the Redline and in fact
lower than any other production 'cross bike.

It handles sooo much better and is a tad bit easier to remount due to
the slightly lower saddle height. I can't imagine, unlike in
mountainbiking, that I need to worry about striking a pedal, so I
can't imagine a scenario where the lower BB would be a detriment.

I won't say 'never', but I can't imagine switching back to a
traditional, high BB cross bike.

I can't come up with any reason other than tradition.
I think Adam Myerson and some of the vets I knew
pointed out that the old reason had to do with dragging
your toeclips. Of course that hasn't been an issue
for a long time. The Euros don't tend to ride on rocky
or MTB-like courses so you wouldn't think they'd strike
pedals. Simon Burney's book advocates higher BBs for
pedal clearance though, so somebody over there thinks
it's an issue.

I have a high-BB bike and it's mildly annoying.
The high BB and larger tires are one reason people
often have trouble figuring out what size of CX bike
to get, since the standover is bigger for a nominal
size as measured by seat tube length.

Ben

On Nov 10, 7:12 pm, "
wrote:

I have a high-BB bike and it's mildly annoying.
The high BB and larger tires are one reason people
often have trouble figuring out what size of CX bike
to get, since the standover is bigger for a nominal
size as measured by seat tube length.

That's why they used to suggest that you get a cross bike 2 cm smaller
than your normal road bike. The problem now is that most cross bikes
don't have a high BB since it makes the bike feel clumsy though it
doesn't really change anything. They still ride fine but they do
definitely feel top heavy.

My world champion Atala cross bike has a LOWER than normal BB and then
when you put cross tires on it the clearance moves up to the same as a
normal road bike. Unfortunately it's a 62 cm bike so with cross tires
on it I can't get a foot on the ground easily so I've converted it
into a touring bike and it is admirable indeed.

On Nov 12, 7:46 am, wrote:

My world champion Atala cross bike has a LOWER than normal BB and then
when you put cross tires on it the clearance moves up to the same as a
normal road bike. Unfortunately it's a 62 cm bike so with cross tires
on it I can't get a foot on the ground easily so I've converted it
into a touring bike and it is admirable indeed.

I should add this - cyclocross bikes in general do not make good
touring bikes. They are built too lightly and get all wobbly under a
full load, they're generally shorter than a good touring bike and your
heels hit the pannier and often they have cables running over the top
of the toptube. On a touring bike you want to sit more upright and
have the bars about at the same height as the saddle. So you usually
have a larger touring bike than your normal road bike. If the cables
are running along the top of the top tube there are times when you
find yourself singing soprano.

On a tour where there are a lot of beginners, such as down the coast
of Californai, you'll see a lot of racing bikes being used. It is
usual for real touring bikes to ride quite a bit slower than these
bikes but to average significantly higher mileage per day because the
touring rider doesn't have to stop and rest his back and crotch etc.
Let me tell you, those Brooks B-17s really come into their own under
those conditions.

Well, here's an update on my weekend of racing. I raced both races
(Beacon and HPCX in NJ) on my mountain bike and got top 15 both times
(out of 45 and 70 respectively) so I'm fairly content for my placings
for my first cross racing experience.

Beacon was mainly along hard pack dirt trails so I kept my pressure
around 50 or 55 psi. My mountain bike (an '03 Specialized Epic) is
unshoulderable so I'm not sure if that fatigued me more than
shouldering a true cross bike running through a beach area and up an
amphitheater's steps. Either way, the running part drained me. I
weigh about 190 or so and haven't been running in a while so I
wouldn't say stairs are my strong point. There were only one or two
other instances going up hills where I had to dismount and I just
pushed it along the ground and let the wheels take the weight up the
bike. After the race I noticed that some of the riders in the upper
categories were retaining more speed through the sand pit than me - I
probably dropped from 20+mph to about 3 or 4mph at the end. I'm not
sure what the cause of that is - whether it's my tire size, pressure,
or strength - I'm a very big guy that can make a decent amount of
power so I'm guessing it's the tire width.

At the Highland Park CX Race I brought both my bikes with my touring
bike equipped with a pair of borrowed clincher cyclocross wheels with
knobby tires. I took both bikes out for a test ride of the course
and I felt faster on my mountain bike so I raced that. Both sets of
tires were around 50psi. I didn't want to pinch flat the true cross
wheels so that's why I had them that high. I ran the MTB tires
hihger pressure as I figured there was enough tread and width to deal
with any sort of traction requiremetns so I might as well minimize the
rolling resitance. Perhaps with tubulars on the cross wheels at a
lower pressure I would have felt faster - it just seemed so bumpy and
jarring at 50psi that I felt a lot slower. Who knows if I actually
was but my MTB felt much better and faster which I guess is what
really matters. I did notice that the touring bike seemed easier to
mount as I believe the BB height is lower than my FS Epic. However
during the heat of the race I didn't have any problems related to the
seat height relative to the ground. HPCX only had 1 set of obstacles
that had to be dismounted for unless you messed up a switchback or
slipped on the grass so the shoulder mounting was a non-issue. I
think the mountain bike did have a few advantages in some areas of the
course both days. There were some roots and a couple of deep ruts
that I was able to continue pedaling pretty much full speed while
other riders stood up to absorb some shock or tried to avoid them. It
also allowed me to pass people in more areas. I'm not sure if it was
because of the bike but I kept pedaling really hard down some of the
longer steeper downhill streches and was able to pass some people
while they more cruised down it or weren't pedaling quite as hard.
I'm not sure if the terrain was too bumpy at that high of speeds for
them to continue pedaling or if they were just recovering. My bike
ate any bumps up - "the Brain" rear shock automatically unlocks to
absorb any shocks and then locks back out again for a stable pedaling
platform. This allowed for a more forgiving and seemingly in control
bike.

I'm not sure if I answered my question to what bike/wheel/tire choice
is faster to my content but as of now I'll be racing my mountain
bike. Perhaps with tubulars on 700c wheels I might change my mind or
if I race on more courses like the Beacon course where the bike has to
get shouldered several times in a lap I might run my touring bike.
I'll try fooling around with tire pressure some more - perhaps I could
try running 60 to 80 psi on my MTB and see how that goes. I'm
guessing the rolling resistance would be much less than a tubular at
30 or 35psi but still have the same amount of grip and roughly the
same amount of comfort. I guess when/if I move up into the UCI
categorie my decision will be made for me but that is still years off
probably. Either way, I'm definitely hooked on cross racing. It
combines the awesomeness of road and mountain bike racing into one
event. You can't beat it!

wrote in message
...
Well, here's an update on my weekend of racing. I raced both races
(Beacon and HPCX in NJ) on my mountain bike and got top 15 both times
(out of 45 and 70 respectively) so I'm fairly content for my placings
for my first cross racing experience.

Beacon was mainly along hard pack dirt trails so I kept my pressure
around 50 or 55 psi. My mountain bike (an '03 Specialized Epic) is
unshoulderable so I'm not sure if that fatigued me more than
shouldering a true cross bike running through a beach area and up an
amphitheater's steps. Either way, the running part drained me. I
weigh about 190 or so and haven't been running in a while so I
wouldn't say stairs are my strong point. There were only one or two
other instances going up hills where I had to dismount and I just
pushed it along the ground and let the wheels take the weight up the
bike. After the race I noticed that some of the riders in the upper
categories were retaining more speed through the sand pit than me - I
probably dropped from 20+mph to about 3 or 4mph at the end. I'm not
sure what the cause of that is - whether it's my tire size, pressure,
or strength - I'm a very big guy that can make a decent amount of
power so I'm guessing it's the tire width.

At the Highland Park CX Race I brought both my bikes with my touring
bike equipped with a pair of borrowed clincher cyclocross wheels with
knobby tires. I took both bikes out for a test ride of the course
and I felt faster on my mountain bike so I raced that. Both sets of
tires were around 50psi. I didn't want to pinch flat the true cross
wheels so that's why I had them that high. I ran the MTB tires
hihger pressure as I figured there was enough tread and width to deal
with any sort of traction requiremetns so I might as well minimize the
rolling resitance. Perhaps with tubulars on the cross wheels at a
lower pressure I would have felt faster - it just seemed so bumpy and
jarring at 50psi that I felt a lot slower. Who knows if I actually
was but my MTB felt much better and faster which I guess is what
really matters. I did notice that the touring bike seemed easier to
mount as I believe the BB height is lower than my FS Epic. However
during the heat of the race I didn't have any problems related to the
seat height relative to the ground. HPCX only had 1 set of obstacles
that had to be dismounted for unless you messed up a switchback or
slipped on the grass so the shoulder mounting was a non-issue. I
think the mountain bike did have a few advantages in some areas of the
course both days. There were some roots and a couple of deep ruts
that I was able to continue pedaling pretty much full speed while
other riders stood up to absorb some shock or tried to avoid them. It
also allowed me to pass people in more areas. I'm not sure if it was
because of the bike but I kept pedaling really hard down some of the
longer steeper downhill streches and was able to pass some people
while they more cruised down it or weren't pedaling quite as hard.
I'm not sure if the terrain was too bumpy at that high of speeds for
them to continue pedaling or if they were just recovering. My bike
ate any bumps up - "the Brain" rear shock automatically unlocks to
absorb any shocks and then locks back out again for a stable pedaling
platform. This allowed for a more forgiving and seemingly in control
bike.

I'm not sure if I answered my question to what bike/wheel/tire choice
is faster to my content but as of now I'll be racing my mountain
bike. Perhaps with tubulars on 700c wheels I might change my mind or
if I race on more courses like the Beacon course where the bike has to
get shouldered several times in a lap I might run my touring bike.
I'll try fooling around with tire pressure some more - perhaps I could
try running 60 to 80 psi on my MTB and see how that goes. I'm
guessing the rolling resistance would be much less than a tubular at
30 or 35psi but still have the same amount of grip and roughly the
same amount of comfort. I guess when/if I move up into the UCI
categorie my decision will be made for me but that is still years off
probably. Either way, I'm definitely hooked on cross racing. It
combines the awesomeness of road and mountain bike racing into one
event. You can't beat it!

Congratulations on your first race. I noted that you say you finished 15th
and yet were going through the sand pit 3-4 mph near the end of the race. I
would have expected that but I would have thought that the competition you
were against weren't all beginners as well. I guess things are different out
here in California where everyone's a sandbagger. Cat 3's with Cat 5
licenses etc.

On Nov 15, 8:40 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
wrote in message

...



Well, here's an update on my weekend of racing. I raced both races
(Beacon and HPCX in NJ) on my mountain bike and got top 15 both times
(out of 45 and 70 respectively) so I'm fairly content for my placings
for my first cross racing experience.

Beacon was mainly along hard pack dirt trails so I kept my pressure
around 50 or 55 psi. My mountain bike (an '03 Specialized Epic) is
unshoulderable so I'm not sure if that fatigued me more than
shouldering a true cross bike running through a beach area and up an
amphitheater's steps. Either way, the running part drained me. I
weigh about 190 or so and haven't been running in a while so I
wouldn't say stairs are my strong point. There were only one or two
other instances going up hills where I had to dismount and I just
pushed it along the ground and let the wheels take the weight up the
bike. After the race I noticed that some of the riders in the upper
categories were retaining more speed through the sand pit than me - I
probably dropped from 20+mph to about 3 or 4mph at the end. I'm not
sure what the cause of that is - whether it's my tire size, pressure,
or strength - I'm a very big guy that can make a decent amount of
power so I'm guessing it's the tire width.

At the Highland Park CX Race I brought both my bikes with my touring
bike equipped with a pair of borrowed clincher cyclocross wheels with
knobby tires. I took both bikes out for a test ride of the course
and I felt faster on my mountain bike so I raced that. Both sets of
tires were around 50psi. I didn't want to pinch flat the true cross
wheels so that's why I had them that high. I ran the MTB tires
hihger pressure as I figured there was enough tread and width to deal
with any sort of traction requiremetns so I might as well minimize the
rolling resitance. Perhaps with tubulars on the cross wheels at a
lower pressure I would have felt faster - it just seemed so bumpy and
jarring at 50psi that I felt a lot slower. Who knows if I actually
was but my MTB felt much better and faster which I guess is what
really matters. I did notice that the touring bike seemed easier to
mount as I believe the BB height is lower than my FS Epic. However
during the heat of the race I didn't have any problems related to the
seat height relative to the ground. HPCX only had 1 set of obstacles
that had to be dismounted for unless you messed up a switchback or
slipped on the grass so the shoulder mounting was a non-issue. I
think the mountain bike did have a few advantages in some areas of the
course both days. There were some roots and a couple of deep ruts
that I was able to continue pedaling pretty much full speed while
other riders stood up to absorb some shock or tried to avoid them. It
also allowed me to pass people in more areas. I'm not sure if it was
because of the bike but I kept pedaling really hard down some of the
longer steeper downhill streches and was able to pass some people
while they more cruised down it or weren't pedaling quite as hard.
I'm not sure if the terrain was too bumpy at that high of speeds for
them to continue pedaling or if they were just recovering. My bike
ate any bumps up - "the Brain" rear shock automatically unlocks to
absorb any shocks and then locks back out again for a stable pedaling
platform. This allowed for a more forgiving and seemingly in control
bike.

I'm not sure if I answered my question to what bike/wheel/tire choice
is faster to my content but as of now I'll be racing my mountain
bike. Perhaps with tubulars on 700c wheels I might change my mind or
if I race on more courses like the Beacon course where the bike has to
get shouldered several times in a lap I might run my touring bike.
I'll try fooling around with tire pressure some more - perhaps I could
try running 60 to 80 psi on my MTB and see how that goes. I'm
guessing the rolling resistance would be much less than a tubular at
30 or 35psi but still have the same amount of grip and roughly the
same amount of comfort. I guess when/if I move up into the UCI
categorie my decision will be made for me but that is still years off
probably. Either way, I'm definitely hooked on cross racing. It
combines the awesomeness of road and mountain bike racing into one
event. You can't beat it!

Congratulations on your first race. I noted that you say you finished 15th
and yet were going through the sand pit 3-4 mph near the end of the race. I
would have expected that but I would have thought that the competition you
were against weren't all beginners as well. I guess things are different out
here in California where everyone's a sandbagger. Cat 3's with Cat 5
licenses etc.

Sorry for the confusion - I meant I hit the beginning of the sand pit
around 20mph and at the end of the sand pit I was down to 3 or 4mph.
Now that I'm thinking about it, 3 or 4 miles an hour seems like it
might be a bit optimistic - it was probably closer to 1 or 2 mph as
the last 10 feet or so I was definitely going slower than walking pace
and struggled to make it the rest of the way through upright. I don't
think I could have stayed upright through the whole pit if I was going
3-4mph at the beginning of the pit! It seemed like some of the more
elite riders were probably going closer to jogging/running pace at the
end (7+mph perhaps?). Doing some reading online it seems like there
are two theories - thinner harder tires to cut through to the firmer
soil beneath or fat lower pressure tires that float on top. I had fat
higher pressure tires so that might have been the reason for my slow
going. Not all the riders on true cross bikes were able to make it
through the sand pit so I'm not quite sure what the optimal approach
is. High entry speeds definitely helps as you retain enough speed to
get most of the way through the pit while still going in a (fairly)
straight line and remaining (fairly) upright. I was hammering it at
the end when I slowed down a lot but I'm not sure if that was
propelling me any faster than a faster, smoother cadence in a lower
gear - perhaps the tires would hook up better without just throwing up
a rooster tail of sand with soft pedaling. Again, I'm not quite sure
about the tire width/pressure theory regarding mud/sand but my choice
definitely seemed fine for the rest of the race - I was just as fast
as the other riders on the road and trail. Perhaps I need to do some
time trials on a local course to see the time difference from
different setups. That's probably the only accurate way to judge the
effectiveness of the different choices.

wrote in message
...

Sorry for the confusion - I meant I hit the beginning of the sand pit
around 20mph and at the end of the sand pit I was down to 3 or 4mph.

Yeah, I understood that. But regardless of what you hear, if you stand to
the side and watch, everything works pretty much equally badly in that sort
of stuff. The reason that the fast guys are fast isn't because of equipment
but because of racing muscles. If you keep racing you'll gain those as well.