I finally get it: If GW is not man-made, then God is punishingus with it

Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
The Repubs are penny pinchers compared to free spending Dems. No
comparison at all.
You must have missed the Medicare Drug Benefit. The most expensive
giveaway in decades.

When you get old one of your major expenses will be for prescription drugs
which you can least afford. This was a badly needed reform, but of course it
should have been paid for somehow.


There were a lot of ways to reduce drug cost other than subsidizing a
very well of drug business. You realize that drug companies spend far
more money on advertising than research.

And, not a thought was given to how to pay for that.

Who implemented Pay Go. Who got rid of it.

I see no trace of Republicans minding spending, just paying.


Or did you miss the trillion dollars plus on the Iraq war.

What would the Middle East have cost us if we hadn't invaded Iraq?


In a lot better shape. Iran wouldn't be the huge problem it is in now,
because Iraq would have kept it in check. And we would have finished
Afghanistan.

Or did you miss the largest expansion in government in generations with
the convoluted mess of Homeland security.

The main duty of the federal government is to protect the people.

It's mere wishful thinking that anyone could have spent more.

The Dems are presently spending more than we could ever have imagined.

Much of that was spent by W and simply never put on the books. How much
do you think the Iraq war costs? Obama put that in the budget so at
least it shows up in the deficit. W was manipulating the books.


Every time I tread a post from you guys on the right fringe, I think:
"Do these guys have anything but fear and hatred?". It appears not.
You are describing liberals who fear and hate everything under the sun.
All we conservatives fear and hate are liberals - damn their rotten souls
all the way to hell and back!
You hate a lot. And your perception of the typical Democrat is of your
own creation. You just believe what you are told.

I see what is being presented to us daily via the liberal media. CNN and
MSNBC especially have become nothing but conduits for liberal propaganda.


As opposed to Fox? You guys are so thin skinned.

I fear the debt that liberal Dems are piling up.

Clinton worked hard to pay down the debt. The first thing W did was give
it all away. You should have cared before, I did.

It is unsustainable and
highly dangerous. The only way out will be hyperinflation, the gravest sort
of tax on the middle class and the working poor.

No sign of hyperinflation. Plenty of signs of fear and rabid
behaviour on the right. The debt will have to be handled, but the right
has no plans other than tax cuts and more spending off books. But first
the economy. You always spend your way out of a recession, that is if
you want to get out. Historically money is put back during good times. W
drained the pot.

Jeff

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
You have got everything backwards. It is Obama who will be tired for
treason. After all, he is destroying America as we have known it for
several hundred years.
Er, did you miss that the financial system was in collapse?

Something that everyone in the country contributed to, most especially the
liberal Dems in Congress.

Who gutted the regulatory departments? It was W.

And Democrats come in all flavors. Republicans only come in one
flavor and all vote in lock step. Who is behind your curtain?

Did you miss that this is widely referred to as the worst recession since
the Great Depression?

Did you miss that growth has returned and the unemployment rate (which
you seem to like) is heading down.

Did you miss that the Deficit nearly tripled under Bush?

Bush was twiddling his thumbs when all this was going down. Did you not
notice how much of the initial reaction was waste?

The liberal Dems are making everything a thousand times worse. Just keep
your eye on the debt.

Why, you didn't care before? The solution was Pay Go, which got in the
way of all those unfunded tax cuts and spending.

You can look up the actual budgets and you will see that indeed W
kept the biggest cost off budget (it is now on budget and part of the
deficit).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Un...federal_budget

Now look at the discretionary spending.

# $663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas
Contingency Operations)

Do you want that to be less, while we are at war?

# $78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services

Note the reduction

# $72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation

A modest increase for badly neglected infrastructure.

# $52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs

Huge problems here, or did you forget.

Your side cares not a whit about controlling debt, all they care about
is taxes. Why then did the non partisan commission to make
recommendations get no support from Republicans?

Costs need to be controlled in mandatory programs, but the
Republicans have no plans. Go look at the little they have ponied up and
it is little more that Sarah's Hand Notes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefan..._b_452458.html

As someone put it, The Tea Party is like a dog chasing a car. If they
ever caught it they wouldn't know what to do with it.

Jeff


Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

tmclone wrote:
On Feb 6, 9:52 am, jeff wrote:
Every time I tread a post from you guys on the right fringe, I think:
"Do these guys have anything but fear and hatred?". It appears not.

Jeff

Why do you waste your breath on these guys?

Because it's easy. And I think their nonsense needs to be refuted. I
think it gives you some good facts and arguments. If it is clogging up
the cycling groups, which I don't read, I'll kill it. I'm in frugal living.

Jeff



It's not as if
rightwingnuts are capable of actual thought. They can only parrot what
they hear on faux news. It's sad, but hopeless. Move on.

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
What would the Middle East have cost us if we hadn't invaded Iraq?


In a lot better shape. Iran wouldn't be the huge problem it is in now,
because Iraq would have kept it in check. And we would have finished
Afghanistan.

Bush will go down in history as the president who took on the Islamic
terrorists while the rest of the world stood by and did nothing. To his
credit, Obama seems to be doing the right thing in Afghanistan.
[...]

It [the debt] is unsustainable and
highly dangerous. The only way out will be hyperinflation, the gravest
sort of tax on the middle class and the working poor.

No sign of hyperinflation. Plenty of signs of fear and rabid behaviour
on the right. The debt will have to be handled, but the right has no plans
other than tax cuts and more spending off books. But first the economy.
You always spend your way out of a recession, that is if you want to get
out. Historically money is put back during good times. W drained the pot.

This business of spending your way out of a recession may be seriously
flawed. However, time will tell and any chickens out there will soon come
home to roost. The debt is very worrisome.

Bush was a big spender and he never vetoed anything. He was not a true
conservative by any means.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"tmclone" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 9:52 am, jeff wrote:
Every time I tread a post from you guys on the right fringe, I think:
"Do these guys have anything but fear and hatred?". It appears not.

Jeff

Why do you waste your breath on these guys? It's not as if
rightwingnuts are capable of actual thought. They can only parrot what
they hear on faux news. It's sad, but hopeless. Move on.

What a laugh! Bill Sornson constantly posts links which refute every liberal
myth as to what constitutes the facts. But there are none so blind as those
who will not see, i.e., liberals.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
You have got everything backwards. It is Obama who will be tired for
treason. After all, he is destroying America as we have known it for
several hundred years.
Er, did you miss that the financial system was in collapse?

Something that everyone in the country contributed to, most especially
the liberal Dems in Congress.

Who gutted the regulatory departments? It was W.

It was both Repubs and Dems who wanted everyone to own their own houses.
Bush tried to reign it in, but Congress wanted everyone to have a mortgage,
whether you could afford it or not. Barney Frank, a liberal Dem, was one of
the main villains in all of this.

And Democrats come in all flavors. Republicans only come in one flavor
and all vote in lock step. Who is behind your curtain?

Repubs have better party discipline than do the Dems.
[...]

Your side cares not a whit about controlling debt, all they care about is
taxes. Why then did the non partisan commission to make recommendations
get no support from Republicans?

The Repubs do blather on about taxes way too much I must admit. But we have
got to get some control over spending. That is the problem, not taxes.
[...]

As someone put it, The Tea Party is like a dog chasing a car. If they ever
caught it they wouldn't know what to do with it.

The Tea Party movement is a sign of hope. They want smaller government and
less spending. If you are on the frugal living group, you should be for it.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
What would the Middle East have cost us if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

In a lot better shape. Iran wouldn't be the huge problem it is in now,
because Iraq would have kept it in check. And we would have finished
Afghanistan.

Bush will go down in history as the president who took on the Islamic
terrorists while the rest of the world stood by and did nothing.

Er, did he have a choice? He will go down as the president on whose
watch 9/11 happened and who let binLaden get away while he strated a war
that had nothing to do with alQaeda in Iraq. You do realize that the
drones that were tracking binLaden were pilled out of Afghanistan to
track Iraq instead?

To his
credit, Obama seems to be doing the right thing in Afghanistan.
[...]

After languishing for years, because the eye was on Iraq.

Note that 2009 was a record year for killing alQaeda and Taliban. 2010
is well on the way to eclipsing that. The leader of Pak Taliban is dead.
But in additional much progress has been made in cutting off their
finances. The difference between a working government and one trying to
limp to the finish line. Attention is finally being paid to Yemen. You
did know that Bush had a bit of a tiff and halted efforts there?

It [the debt] is unsustainable and
highly dangerous. The only way out will be hyperinflation, the gravest
sort of tax on the middle class and the working poor.
No sign of hyperinflation. Plenty of signs of fear and rabid behaviour
on the right. The debt will have to be handled, but the right has no plans
other than tax cuts and more spending off books. But first the economy.
You always spend your way out of a recession, that is if you want to get
out. Historically money is put back during good times. W drained the pot.

This business of spending your way out of a recession may be seriously
flawed. However, time will tell and any chickens out there will soon come
home to roost. The debt is very worrisome.

Yes. Reagan was wrong in that deficits don't matter. So was Bush 2.
Remember he was given near surpluses.

But the recession comes first. Note that the value of the dollar
which had fallen so much under W is up under Obama. That borrowing rates
are historically low and that the % debt to GDP was higher post war.

You can not lower taxes and fix the debt. It has always been the
opposite. Even Reagan and George Bush 1 had to raise taxes after a
while. Trickle Down does not work.

There is little discretionary spending that can be cut, and the right
refuses to consider tackling mandatory. The only plan they had was to
privatize SS, the safety net. How many people would be destitute now if
that had been in place?


Bush was a big spender and he never vetoed anything. He was not a true
conservative by any means.

He was the darling of the conservative set, how can you deny that? You
still defend and admire him.

Jeff

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
"tmclone" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 9:52 am, jeff wrote:
Every time I tread a post from you guys on the right fringe, I think:
"Do these guys have anything but fear and hatred?". It appears not.

Jeff

Why do you waste your breath on these guys? It's not as if
rightwingnuts are capable of actual thought. They can only parrot what
they hear on faux news. It's sad, but hopeless. Move on.

What a laugh! Bill Sornson constantly posts links which refute every liberal
myth as to what constitutes the facts.

Repost one. Go ahead. I have a close friend who is a Tea Partier and I
hear all kinds of things. I always look into them and it always comes up
all opinion and little to no facts.

But there are none so blind as those
who will not see, i.e., liberals.

You have only beliefs, no facts. Just because someone you like says
it's so, does not make it so.

I heard a Tea Partier saying they liked Sarah because she think like
they do. Exactly.

Jeff

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Feb 8, 10:21*am, jeff wrote:
Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
What would the Middle East have cost us if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

In a lot better shape. Iran wouldn't be the huge problem it is in now,
because Iraq would have kept it in check. And we would have finished
Afghanistan.

Bush will go down in history as the president who took on the Islamic
terrorists while the rest of the world stood by and did nothing.

Er, did he have a choice? He will go down as the president on whose
watch 9/11 happened and who let binLaden get away while he strated a war
that had nothing to do with alQaeda in Iraq. You do realize that the
drones that were tracking binLaden were pilled out of Afghanistan to
track Iraq instead?

I think he will also go down as the president that marks the
"beginning of the end." Because he invaded Iraq precisely because it
had NO WMDs, Iran and N. Korea decided to get the real thing. WELCOME
TO THE JUNGLE.

Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
You have got everything backwards. It is Obama who will be tired for
treason. After all, he is destroying America as we have known it for
several hundred years.
Er, did you miss that the financial system was in collapse?
Something that everyone in the country contributed to, most especially
the liberal Dems in Congress.
Who gutted the regulatory departments? It was W.

It was both Repubs and Dems who wanted everyone to own their own houses.
Bush tried to reign it in, but Congress wanted everyone to have a mortgage,
whether you could afford it or not. Barney Frank, a liberal Dem, was one of
the main villains in all of this.

You guys are always looking for villains. The problem was not in
wanting more mortgages, the problem was that they didn't follow proper
procedures. It was not the government sponsored loans that failed, they
perform at average to above average rates. It was all those mortgages
based on fiction, none of which followed government standards.

And Democrats come in all flavors. Republicans only come in one flavor
and all vote in lock step. Who is behind your curtain?
r
Repubs have better party discipline than do the Dems.
[...]

Absolutely. Which is why we are where we are today.

Your side cares not a whit about controlling debt, all they care about is
taxes. Why then did the non partisan commission to make recommendations
get no support from Republicans?

The Repubs do blather on about taxes way too much I must admit. But we have
got to get some control over spending. That is the problem, not taxes.
[...]

Exactly what spending? I've posted the links to the 2010 budget, did
you look? What would you cut in the discretionary that would make a
difference?

Would you take the wars off budget again so the numbers look better?

As someone put it, The Tea Party is like a dog chasing a car. If they ever
caught it they wouldn't know what to do with it.

The Tea Party movement is a sign of hope. They want smaller government and
less spending. If you are on the frugal living group, you should be for it.

Sarah is a woman with much ambition, but little ability. She has
little clue of what is going on. She has narrow dogmatic beliefs. It is
not just liberals that believe that.

Sarah ran a state where the average citizen received far more from
the government dole than the lower 48. Indeed while she was mayor of
Wasilla she lobbied heavily and got government dollars. And she quit the
Governership in shambles, she treated the office like it was for family
and personal benefit. What a messy family life she leads.

But she think like you, which is to say, not deeply.

Jeff

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota