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"stabilizing" a stratus?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 17th 04, 08:00 AM
Mark Leuck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...
Perhaps the problem isn't that you need to have circus performer skills

but
instead you have lousy coordination.


Here is someone who in the past has threatened to kill file me. But of
course that is not possible if you are an intelligent person. So Mark

passes
muster on that score.


I did have you kill filed however your moronic posts are far too
entertaining to miss

I am totally in the mainstream when it comes to coordination and bicycle
riding skills. Yet I continue to object to twitchy bikes. I don't believe
there is any reason for it. The real problem is that some recumbent bike
designers are not up to the mark. In other words, they do not know what

they
are doing. They remind me of people who are constantly reinventing the
wheel - and getting it wrong! For heaven's sakes, it cannot be rocket
science to get the trail right! And why the hell can't recumbent designers
get the tiller right either?


So which specific brands and bikes are too twitchy? That is something on a
more personal nature, to some a bike might be twitchy to others not

Recumbent designers should all be consulting with another Minnesotan by

the
name of Mark Stonich who knows what the hell he is talking about with
respect to these very elementary design considerations.


Frankly, I am fed up with recumbent designers who cannot get the trail

right
and who cannot get the tiller right. Such designers ought to be taken out
and horse whipped to death for all the aggravation they cause. I have lost
all patience with them! The problem is that they love to build the g.d.
things, but they don't put any effort into designing them. May the devil
take them!


Umm yea sure


Ads
  #12  
Old July 17th 04, 08:41 AM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
news:w84Kc.93803$JR4.65308@attbi_s54...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...
Perhaps the problem isn't that you need to have circus performer

skills
but
instead you have lousy coordination.


Here is someone who in the past has threatened to kill file me. But of
course that is not possible if you are an intelligent person. So Mark

passes
muster on that score.


I did have you kill filed however your moronic posts are far too
entertaining to miss.


I mean to be entertaining if nothing else. I wish I could say the same for
all the other posters here. God only knows how boring they are for the most
part. You are so-so only. Could be better. You need to work on your
communication skills. Try not to write anything that you wouldn't want to
read.

I am totally in the mainstream when it comes to coordination and bicycle
riding skills. Yet I continue to object to twitchy bikes. I don't

believe
there is any reason for it. The real problem is that some recumbent bike
designers are not up to the mark. In other words, they do not know what

they
are doing. They remind me of people who are constantly reinventing the
wheel - and getting it wrong! For heaven's sakes, it cannot be rocket
science to get the trail right! And why the hell can't recumbent

designers
get the tiller right either?


So which specific brands and bikes are too twitchy? That is something on a
more personal nature, to some a bike might be twitchy to others not


I am a generalist and I will not get into specifics on this question.
Suffice it to say I have very many recumbents and some are incredibly
twitchy and others are not. Same goes for the tiller variable. Some have way
too much and some have way too little and others are OK.

Recumbent designers should all be consulting with another Minnesotan by

the
name of Mark Stonich who knows what the hell he is talking about with
respect to these very elementary design considerations.


Frankly, I am fed up with recumbent designers who cannot get the trail

right
and who cannot get the tiller right. Such designers ought to be taken

out
and horse whipped to death for all the aggravation they cause. I have

lost
all patience with them! The problem is that they love to build the g.d.
things, but they don't put any effort into designing them. May the devil
take them!


Umm yea sure


No, I really mean the Devil take them! I simply can't believe that recumbent
builders do not have a formula for trail and tiller. If I didn't know how to
design proper trail and tiller into a bike I would not presume to be a bike
manufacturer. Hells Bells! Even Wal-Mart sells bikes that are perfectly
designed.

I have got over 15 recumbents and they are all different. The fact that they
are all different ought to tell us something, but it doesn't because hope
springs eternal in the human breast. Fortunately, I am going to die soon and
so will be well out of these eternal conundrums that recumbents present
which have almost driven me crazy over the past 20 years. But I have a sense
of humor about it all and that is the only thing that has saved me.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota



  #13  
Old July 18th 04, 04:13 PM
Mark Leuck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...
So which specific brands and bikes are too twitchy? That is something on

a
more personal nature, to some a bike might be twitchy to others not


I am a generalist and I will not get into specifics on this question.
Suffice it to say I have very many recumbents and some are incredibly
twitchy and others are not. Same goes for the tiller variable. Some have

way
too much and some have way too little and others are OK.


I find it odd how a supposed "genius" could buy so many bikes without
realizing how twitchy they are, I also doubt you really have a recumbent
bike at all

and horse whipped to death for all the aggravation they cause. I have

lost
all patience with them! The problem is that they love to build the

g.d.
things, but they don't put any effort into designing them. May the

devil
take them!


Umm yea sure


No, I really mean the Devil take them! I simply can't believe that

recumbent
builders do not have a formula for trail and tiller. If I didn't know how

to
design proper trail and tiller into a bike I would not presume to be a

bike
manufacturer. Hells Bells! Even Wal-Mart sells bikes that are perfectly
designed.


Wal-Mart may sell bikes with perfect trail but I doubt many will last 100
miles or more, again which specific brand and model bike are you complaining
about? I should think this would be a simple question to answer. I own 2 and
have ridden maybe 10 and have yet to find a complaint with how they steer,
comfort yes but never steer


I have got over 15 recumbents and they are all different.


I doubt this

the fact that they
are all different ought to tell us something, but it doesn't because hope
springs eternal in the human breast. Fortunately, I am going to die soon

and
so will be well out of these eternal conundrums that recumbents present
which have almost driven me crazy over the past 20 years. But I have a

sense
of humor about it all and that is the only thing that has saved me.


Odd you have spent the last 20 years on purchasing and riding such poorly
made bikes, then again that would explain your disposition here


  #14  
Old July 18th 04, 05:08 PM
Just zis Guy, you know?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:13:24 GMT, "Mark Leuck"
wrote in message oswKc.87610$WX.49747@attbi_s51:

I find it odd how a supposed "genius" could buy so many bikes without
realizing how twitchy they are, I also doubt you really have a recumbent
bike at all


I think he's riding them all on singletrack - he won't go near the
roads ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
  #15  
Old July 18th 04, 07:02 PM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
newsswKc.87610$WX.49747@attbi_s51...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...
So which specific brands and bikes are too twitchy? That is something

on
a
more personal nature, to some a bike might be twitchy to others not


I am a generalist and I will not get into specifics on this question.
Suffice it to say I have very many recumbents and some are incredibly
twitchy and others are not. Same goes for the tiller variable. Some have

way
too much and some have way too little and others are OK.


I find it odd how a supposed "genius" could buy so many bikes without
realizing how twitchy they are, I also doubt you really have a recumbent
bike at all


Mark, why the hell don't you put periods at the end of your sentences?

I like recumbents for reasons having to do with factors other than that they
are twitchy (mainly comfort). You and I both know that I have very many
recumbents. Otherwise, how could I be so knowledgeable about them.

and horse whipped to death for all the aggravation they cause. I

have
lost
all patience with them! The problem is that they love to build the

g.d.
things, but they don't put any effort into designing them. May the

devil
take them!

Umm yea sure


No, I really mean the Devil take them! I simply can't believe that

recumbent
builders do not have a formula for trail and tiller. If I didn't know

how
to
design proper trail and tiller into a bike I would not presume to be a

bike
manufacturer. Hells Bells! Even Wal-Mart sells bikes that are perfectly
designed.


Wal-Mart may sell bikes with perfect trail but I doubt many will last 100
miles or more, again which specific brand and model bike are you

complaining
about? I should think this would be a simple question to answer. I own 2

and
have ridden maybe 10 and have yet to find a complaint with how they steer,
comfort yes but never steer


I have got over 15 recumbents and they are all different.


I doubt this


Outsiders who come to my house for the first time are simply amazed at all
the recumbent bikes I have. They clutter the whole house. I have to tell
them that I am not really crazy, just a bit eccentric. I also have over 10
road and mountain bikes too. I have had bike shop owners tell me that I have
got more bikes in my house than they have in their store. Most of my bikes
were bought as framesets on the cheap and I built them myself. But thanks
for asking!

By the way, the above proves what it is possible to accomplish in life
provided you do not marry and have kids and therefore do not have to hold
down a regular job.

the fact that they
are all different ought to tell us something, but it doesn't because

hope
springs eternal in the human breast. Fortunately, I am going to die soon

and
so will be well out of these eternal conundrums that recumbents present
which have almost driven me crazy over the past 20 years. But I have a

sense
of humor about it all and that is the only thing that has saved me.


Odd you have spent the last 20 years on purchasing and riding such poorly
made bikes, then again that would explain your disposition here


My disposition would improve enormously if you would learn how to put a
period at the end of your sentences. It is the little things like this that
drive me crazy, not the big things like whether I live or die.

Most recumbents are not poorly made; they just have not been designed with
the proper trail and tiller. That is because recumbent manufacturers do not
spend enough time designing them. But they love to build them even though
they don't get the design right. Don't we all know folks like this?

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota


  #16  
Old July 18th 04, 07:14 PM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:13:24 GMT, "Mark Leuck"
wrote in message oswKc.87610$WX.49747@attbi_s51:

I find it odd how a supposed "genius" could buy so many bikes without
realizing how twitchy they are, I also doubt you really have a recumbent
bike at all


I think he's riding them all on singletrack - he won't go near the
roads ;-)


My very worst experience ever was riding a mountain bike on single track
(trails) in the Rocky Mountains near Aspen in Colorado. I spent the whole
damn day just walking my bike up the pass and then I had to walk it back
down the other side until I finally came to a gravel road at which point I
could get back on my bike. I resolved never again to do anything so stupid
and foolish. Trails are for hiking - period! Who are these idiots who think
you can ride a bike on a hiking trail?

The very best place to ride any kind of a bike are on the streets of a small
town. Thus spake Zarathustra!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota


  #17  
Old July 18th 04, 08:14 PM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
newsswKc.87610$WX.49747@attbi_s51...
[...]
Wal-Mart may sell bikes with perfect trail but I doubt many will last 100
miles or more, again which specific brand and model bike are you

complaining
about? I should think this would be a simple question to answer. I own 2

and
have ridden maybe 10 and have yet to find a complaint with how they steer,
comfort yes but never steer


I am ****ed off before I even start because you have not put a period at the
end of your sentence above. Is this your idea of how to alienate people and
make enemies?

I have several clunker upright bikes that are even worse than what Wal-Mart
is now selling and they will last a life time if not abused and a certain
amount of minimum maintenance is performed at regular intervals. The main
problem with almost all bikes that the kids get regardless of original
quality is that they abuse them and do not take care of them.

As to my recumbents, I would say that the Vision set up SWB has too much
twitchiness (not enough trail). Even set up LWB with OSS it is still too
twitchy. I have two other SWB's and the Kowal also has too much
twitchiness. The Turner SWB is just the opposite. It seems to have too much
trail. I have given up on SWB altogether.

My RANS V2 has too much tiller to suit me as does the RANS Tailwind. My
Tailwind (a very early version) is also too twitchy. At slow speeds too much
tiller and too much twitchyness is a pain in the you know what. My Infinity
is also too twitchy. The Tour Easy has got it right. If the trail and the
tiller are not right, the bike will not handle as well as it should. All
uprights solved these questions over a hundred years ago. It is not possible
to get a bad upright with respect to these very elementary design factors.

This is not to say that all recumbents are nor rideable even if trail and
tiller are not perfect. I can ride them all and have ridden very many of
them (except for the latest high racers and low racers). All recumbents
should be designed with optimum trail and optimum tiller for the vast
majority of cyclists just like uprights are. Then they would all handle
pretty much the same regardless of their individual configurations (frame
designs). Or so it seems to me.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota



--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota


  #18  
Old July 18th 04, 10:58 PM
Mark Leuck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
I find it odd how a supposed "genius" could buy so many bikes without
realizing how twitchy they are, I also doubt you really have a recumbent
bike at all


Mark, why the hell don't you put periods at the end of your sentences?

I like recumbents for reasons having to do with factors other than that

they
are twitchy (mainly comfort). You and I both know that I have very many
recumbents. Otherwise, how could I be so knowledgeable about them.


I have yet to see anything you say show knowledge on any of them

(note the lack of a period)

Again you claim them to be seriously twitchy yet you continued to buy them,
how odd

I have got over 15 recumbents and they are all different.


I doubt this


Outsiders who come to my house for the first time are simply amazed at all
the recumbent bikes I have. They clutter the whole house. I have to tell
them that I am not really crazy, just a bit eccentric. I also have over 10
road and mountain bikes too. I have had bike shop owners tell me that I

have
got more bikes in my house than they have in their store. Most of my bikes
were bought as framesets on the cheap and I built them myself. But thanks
for asking!


You DO realize that having pictures of recumbent bikes does not qualify as
ownership of a real one correct?

Odd you have spent the last 20 years on purchasing and riding such

poorly
made bikes, then again that would explain your disposition here


My disposition would improve enormously if you would learn how to put a
period at the end of your sentences. It is the little things like this

that
drive me crazy, not the big things like whether I live or die.


Well here's to driving you crazy

Most recumbents are not poorly made; they just have not been designed with
the proper trail and tiller. That is because recumbent manufacturers do

not
spend enough time designing them. But they love to build them even though
they don't get the design right. Don't we all know folks like this?


Since you won't or apparently cannot tell us which particular make and model
have poor handling then why don't you tell us all what the proper trail and
pitch should be


  #19  
Old July 18th 04, 11:02 PM
Mark Leuck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
newsswKc.87610$WX.49747@attbi_s51...
[...]
Wal-Mart may sell bikes with perfect trail but I doubt many will last

100
miles or more, again which specific brand and model bike are you

complaining
about? I should think this would be a simple question to answer. I own 2

and
have ridden maybe 10 and have yet to find a complaint with how they

steer,
comfort yes but never steer


I am ****ed off before I even start because you have not put a period at

the
end of your sentence above. Is this your idea of how to alienate people

and
make enemies?


It oddly only seems to bother you so therefore the correct word would be
"person" instead of "people"

I have several clunker upright bikes that are even worse than what

Wal-Mart
is now selling and they will last a life time if not abused and a certain
amount of minimum maintenance is performed at regular intervals. The main
problem with almost all bikes that the kids get regardless of original
quality is that they abuse them and do not take care of them.


Lets see now, you apparently possess 12 ill-handling recumbents and now
several junk DF bikes, odd how such a genius could collect garbage like that

As to my recumbents, I would say that the Vision set up SWB has too much
twitchiness (not enough trail). Even set up LWB with OSS it is still too
twitchy. I have two other SWB's and the Kowal also has too much
twitchiness. The Turner SWB is just the opposite. It seems to have too

much
trail. I have given up on SWB altogether.


My RANS V2 has too much tiller to suit me as does the RANS Tailwind. My
Tailwind (a very early version) is also too twitchy. At slow speeds too

much
tiller and too much twitchyness is a pain in the you know what. My

Infinity
is also too twitchy. The Tour Easy has got it right. If the trail and the
tiller are not right, the bike will not handle as well as it should. All
uprights solved these questions over a hundred years ago. It is not

possible
to get a bad upright with respect to these very elementary design factors.


Don't read off of web pages, I'm referring to bikes you really own but I'll
bite anyway

Did you not see these things (being the genius) before you purchased them?

This is not to say that all recumbents are nor rideable even if trail and
tiller are not perfect. I can ride them all and have ridden very many of
them (except for the latest high racers and low racers). All recumbents
should be designed with optimum trail and optimum tiller for the vast
majority of cyclists just like uprights are. Then they would all handle
pretty much the same regardless of their individual configurations (frame
designs). Or so it seems to me.


Welp with 12 ill-handling recumbents so far I doubt you could be satisfied
with anything at this point


  #20  
Old July 18th 04, 11:38 PM
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "stabilizing" a stratus?


"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
news:qoCKc.125990$Oq2.79163@attbi_s52...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Mark Leuck" wrote in message
I find it odd how a supposed "genius" could buy so many bikes without
realizing how twitchy they are, I also doubt you really have a

recumbent
bike at all


Mark, why the hell don't you put periods at the end of your sentences?

I like recumbents for reasons having to do with factors other than that

they
are twitchy (mainly comfort). You and I both know that I have very many
recumbents. Otherwise, how could I be so knowledgeable about them.


I have yet to see anything you say show knowledge on any of them

(note the lack of a period)


As long as you cannot get your composition right I will continue to hold you
in the utmost contempt. The minute you start to top post like that other
fool, Bil, then I will cut you lose entirely. Idiots should only be
conversing with other idiots, not with geniuses like me.

Again you claim them to be seriously twitchy yet you continued to buy

them,
how odd


See my paragraph above for the explanation for it. I do not like to repeat
myself just because you do not know how to read. I am asusming others on
this group do know how to read even if you don't.

I have got over 15 recumbents and they are all different.

I doubt this


Outsiders who come to my house for the first time are simply amazed at

all
the recumbent bikes I have. They clutter the whole house. I have to tell
them that I am not really crazy, just a bit eccentric. I also have over

10
road and mountain bikes too. I have had bike shop owners tell me that I

have
got more bikes in my house than they have in their store. Most of my

bikes
were bought as framesets on the cheap and I built them myself. But

thanks
for asking!


You DO realize that having pictures of recumbent bikes does not qualify as
ownership of a real one correct?

Odd you have spent the last 20 years on purchasing and riding such

poorly
made bikes, then again that would explain your disposition here


My disposition would improve enormously if you would learn how to put a
period at the end of your sentences. It is the little things like this

that
drive me crazy, not the big things like whether I live or die.


Well here's to driving you crazy

Most recumbents are not poorly made; they just have not been designed

with
the proper trail and tiller. That is because recumbent manufacturers do

not
spend enough time designing them. But they love to build them even

though
they don't get the design right. Don't we all know folks like this?


Since you won't or apparently cannot tell us which particular make and

model
have poor handling then why don't you tell us all what the proper trail

and
pitch should be


See a follow up post to this one to which you are responding where I go into
some of the differences ever so slightly. I do not want this to become an
extended conversation about the pros and cons of various recumbents. We have
RCN for that.

As to proper trail and tiller, that is not my business. I do not design
recumbents nor do I manufacture them. I only buy them and ride them. That is
most likely all that 99% of us on this newsgroup do too - including you! Who
cares what you and I think about bicycle design anymore than anyone should
care what we think about nuclear physics or getting to the Moon. We can only
know what works for us and what doesn't work for us.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota



 




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