DOT Fluid

On 2020-06-17 23:32, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:48:38 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Someone cautioned that DOT brake fluid, in bicycle disk brakes, should
be changed annually.
Is this correct? A requirement of the disk makers? Or ?
--
cheers,

John B.

Never heard of that requirement. In my car is is changed every 2 years.

Lou

Somebody here, talking about bicycle disk brakes mentioned that DOT
liquid must be changed annually while mineral oil did not require
this.

As the DOT brake oil in my pickup truck has been there for probably 20
years without being changed I asked the question.


A motor vehicle usually has a vented reservoir while bicycles
(unfortunately) don't. So when using the brakes and thus warming the
fluid it has a chance to vent off some of the hygroscopicaly accumulated
water but not when it's a closed system like in a bicycle.

Water can gradually get it, for example, via the cylinder sidewalls and
such. Then one fine day you come down a long steep hill and at the last
sharp turn the front brake goes from full brake force to zero, the
stomach moves towards your throat and all you can think of is "Oh S..T!
This is gonna hurt!". Happened to a friend.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:15:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/18/2020 10:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake fluid every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


heh heh heh not so fast with that!

I wrecked a car (one might say the deer wrecked it...) and
left it parked with a tank of ethanol gasoline for two years
before giving the engine to my brother for his 1962
convertible. Ethanol gasoline grows
algae/mold/crud/invasive species amazingly well. Tank, fuel
lines, fuel pump and all the carburetors were a sludge of
green-brown slime. Very tenacious slime I might add.

I changed back to no-ethanol fuel for those and other
reasons. It's only a bit more expensive.

I think that you will find that most fuels will grow algae at the
water-fuel interface. It is a common problem with sail boat's fuel
tanks where the fuel is not consumed fairly quickly and is also fairly
common in power boats where the boat is stored with fuel in the
tanks.It is also a well known problem in large fuel storage tanks.

The secret is not to allow water to accumulate in the tanks which is a
fairly difficult problem to solve as tanks do require some form of
venting to the atmosphere to allow the fuel to flow out :-)



--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 07:51:35 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 7:17:34 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 6/18/2020 3:53 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.

It must be a European thing.

A repair shop will normally change the brake fluid when they replace
brake pads, it's not routine maintenance, it's replacing a wear item
(both the pads and the fluid). If you do the brake jobs yourself you may
not have known that it was a good idea to change the fluid.

I'm trying to picture John doing anything himself. Nor you for that matter.

Well, as you were, by your own statement, unable to avoid hitting a
tree branch it is obvious that you do not have the qualifications to
advise anyone about their ability to accomplish anything.

As Johann Wolfgang von Goethe stated: "There is nothing more
frightening than ignorance in action"
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 14:09:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2020-06-17 23:32, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:07:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:48:38 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Someone cautioned that DOT brake fluid, in bicycle disk brakes, should
be changed annually.
Is this correct? A requirement of the disk makers? Or ?
--
cheers,

John B.

Never heard of that requirement. In my car is is changed every 2 years.

Lou

Somebody here, talking about bicycle disk brakes mentioned that DOT
liquid must be changed annually while mineral oil did not require
this.

As the DOT brake oil in my pickup truck has been there for probably 20
years without being changed I asked the question.


A motor vehicle usually has a vented reservoir while bicycles
(unfortunately) don't. So when using the brakes and thus warming the
fluid it has a chance to vent off some of the hygroscopicaly accumulated
water but not when it's a closed system like in a bicycle.

Water can gradually get it, for example, via the cylinder sidewalls and
such. Then one fine day you come down a long steep hill and at the last
sharp turn the front brake goes from full brake force to zero, the
stomach moves towards your throat and all you can think of is "Oh S..T!
This is gonna hurt!". Happened to a friend.

Goodness Gracious! You are telling us that dick brakes are dangerous?
That they can fail at the most awkward times? Well, then they should
be banned.
Wearing a helmet and banning disk brakes will keep you safe!!
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/19/2020 6:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:15:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/18/2020 10:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake fluid every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


heh heh heh not so fast with that!

I wrecked a car (one might say the deer wrecked it...) and
left it parked with a tank of ethanol gasoline for two years
before giving the engine to my brother for his 1962
convertible. Ethanol gasoline grows
algae/mold/crud/invasive species amazingly well. Tank, fuel
lines, fuel pump and all the carburetors were a sludge of
green-brown slime. Very tenacious slime I might add.

I changed back to no-ethanol fuel for those and other
reasons. It's only a bit more expensive.

I think that you will find that most fuels will grow algae at the
water-fuel interface. It is a common problem with sail boat's fuel
tanks where the fuel is not consumed fairly quickly and is also fairly
common in power boats where the boat is stored with fuel in the
tanks.It is also a well known problem in large fuel storage tanks.

The secret is not to allow water to accumulate in the tanks which is a
fairly difficult problem to solve as tanks do require some form of
venting to the atmosphere to allow the fuel to flow out :-)

So, a question: I have a few small engines that are seldom used -
rototiller, snow blower, etc. I treat the gas with Sta-Bil preservative.
It seems to work. I have very few problems with starting, carburetors, etc.

Anyone know what's in that stuff? How does it work?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 20:24:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/19/2020 6:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:15:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/18/2020 10:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake fluid every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


heh heh heh not so fast with that!

I wrecked a car (one might say the deer wrecked it...) and
left it parked with a tank of ethanol gasoline for two years
before giving the engine to my brother for his 1962
convertible. Ethanol gasoline grows
algae/mold/crud/invasive species amazingly well. Tank, fuel
lines, fuel pump and all the carburetors were a sludge of
green-brown slime. Very tenacious slime I might add.

I changed back to no-ethanol fuel for those and other
reasons. It's only a bit more expensive.

I think that you will find that most fuels will grow algae at the
water-fuel interface. It is a common problem with sail boat's fuel
tanks where the fuel is not consumed fairly quickly and is also fairly
common in power boats where the boat is stored with fuel in the
tanks.It is also a well known problem in large fuel storage tanks.

The secret is not to allow water to accumulate in the tanks which is a
fairly difficult problem to solve as tanks do require some form of
venting to the atmosphere to allow the fuel to flow out :-)

So, a question: I have a few small engines that are seldom used -
rototiller, snow blower, etc. I treat the gas with Sta-Bil preservative.
It seems to work. I have very few problems with starting, carburetors, etc.

Anyone know what's in that stuff? How does it work?

For whatever it is worth, it has been my experience with "modern
gasoline" that the very best thing to do is if a small motor is
difficult to start after being stored with fuel in the tank is drain
the tank, and carb bowl if possible, go down to the filling station
and get some "new" gas and refuel and it is likely that the thing will
start on the second or third pull of the cable.

I have "fixed" a remarkable number of lawn mowers , chain saws, etc.,
using that approach.

An alternate method would be, if you won't be using the device until
next summer, would be to drain the tank, and carb bowl if possible.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/20/2020 4:14 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 20:24:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/19/2020 6:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:15:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/18/2020 10:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don't doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake fluid every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


heh heh heh not so fast with that!

I wrecked a car (one might say the deer wrecked it...) and
left it parked with a tank of ethanol gasoline for two years
before giving the engine to my brother for his 1962
convertible. Ethanol gasoline grows
algae/mold/crud/invasive species amazingly well. Tank, fuel
lines, fuel pump and all the carburetors were a sludge of
green-brown slime. Very tenacious slime I might add.

I changed back to no-ethanol fuel for those and other
reasons. It's only a bit more expensive.

I think that you will find that most fuels will grow algae at the
water-fuel interface. It is a common problem with sail boat's fuel
tanks where the fuel is not consumed fairly quickly and is also fairly
common in power boats where the boat is stored with fuel in the
tanks.It is also a well known problem in large fuel storage tanks.

The secret is not to allow water to accumulate in the tanks which is a
fairly difficult problem to solve as tanks do require some form of
venting to the atmosphere to allow the fuel to flow out :-)

So, a question: I have a few small engines that are seldom used -
rototiller, snow blower, etc. I treat the gas with Sta-Bil preservative.
It seems to work. I have very few problems with starting, carburetors, etc.

Anyone know what's in that stuff? How does it work?

For whatever it is worth, it has been my experience with "modern
gasoline" that the very best thing to do is if a small motor is
difficult to start after being stored with fuel in the tank is drain
the tank, and carb bowl if possible, go down to the filling station
and get some "new" gas and refuel and it is likely that the thing will
start on the second or third pull of the cable.

I have "fixed" a remarkable number of lawn mowers , chain saws, etc.,
using that approach.

An alternate method would be, if you won't be using the device until
next summer, would be to drain the tank, and carb bowl if possible.
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes. I've been through this and learned the hard way with various garden
implements.

My understanding is that gasoline contains both volatiles and, well,
less-volatiles. The point being that gasoline left to evaporate - like
the tiny amount that stays in the carburetor when the engine is shut off
- can leave a gummy residue that clogs carburetors. Gas in the tank is
unlikely to evaporate completely, so is less of a threat.

My solution - install a fuel shut-off valve between the tank and
carburetor. When I'm done using, say, the chipper/shredder, I turn off
the fuel valve *while the engine is running,* thus running the
carburetor dry. I'm sure there's still *some* fuel in the carb, but
much less. So far this seems to help.

If the fuel line is too hard to access, I'll fill the tank as little as
possible and try to run the tank dry at least before long-term storage.
Owners manuals usually recommending draining the tank before storage.
Perhaps they mean run it dry, but I always picture trying to turn the
roto-tiller upside down - uhh, nope, not gonna do that.

Mark J.

On 6/20/2020 12:47 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/20/2020 4:14 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 20:24:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/19/2020 6:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:15:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/18/2020 10:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 20:47:00 -0400, Bertrand
wrote:

While I don'tÂ* doubt you I have never, in the 70 years or so
that I've
been fooling about with motor vehicles heard of anyone changing
brake
fluid per some schedule and I just checked the Honda HR-V service
manual and there is no mention of changing the brake fluid.


The manual for my 2009 Honda Fit calls for changing the brake
fluid every three
years.

I just located an on line references to changing Honda brake and ATF
fluid and yes the dealer does recommend changing brake fluid every
30,000 miles or 3 years, depending on what site I read. They also
recommend changing the ATF fluid and again I found a 30,000 mile
reference but I don't know whether that is the official Honda figure
and I also find reference to changing the radiator coo lent with,
again, unofficial mention of a 30,000 mile interval.

Apparently the only liquid that you don't have to specifically change
is the gasoline :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


heh heh heh not so fast with that!

I wrecked a car (one might say the deer wrecked it...) and
left it parked with a tank of ethanol gasoline for two years
before giving the engine to my brother for his 1962
convertible.Â* Ethanol gasoline grows
algae/mold/crud/invasive species amazingly well. Tank, fuel
lines, fuel pump and all the carburetors were a sludge of
green-brown slime. Very tenacious slime I might add.

I changed back to no-ethanol fuel for those and other
reasons. It's only a bit more expensive.

I think that you will find that most fuels will grow algae at the
water-fuel interface. It is a common problem with sail boat's fuel
tanks where the fuel is not consumed fairly quickly and is also fairly
common in power boats where the boat is stored with fuel in the
tanks.It is also a well known problem in large fuel storage tanks.

The secret is not to allow water to accumulate in the tanks which is a
fairly difficult problem to solve as tanks do require some form of
venting to the atmosphere to allow the fuel to flow out :-)

So, a question: I have a few small engines that are seldom used -
rototiller, snow blower, etc. I treat the gas with Sta-Bil preservative.
It seems to work. I have very few problems with starting,
carburetors, etc.

Anyone know what's in that stuff? How does it work?

For whatever it is worth, it has been my experience with "modern
gasoline" that the very best thing to do is if a small motor is
difficult to start after being stored with fuel in the tank is drain
the tank, and carb bowlÂ* if possible, go down to the filling station
and get some "new" gas and refuel and it is likely that the thing will
start on the second or third pull of the cable.

I have "fixed" a remarkable number of lawn mowers , chain saws, etc.,
using that approach.

An alternate method would be, if you won't be using the device until
next summer, would be to drain the tank, and carb bowl if possible.
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes. I've been through this and learned the hard way with various garden
implements.

My understanding is that gasoline contains both volatiles and, well,
less-volatiles.Â* The point being that gasoline left to evaporate - like
the tiny amount that stays in the carburetor when the engine is shut off
- can leave a gummy residue that clogs carburetors.Â* Gas in the tank is
unlikely to evaporate completely, so is less of a threat.

My solution - install a fuel shut-off valve between the tank and
carburetor.Â* When I'm done using, say, the chipper/shredder, I turn off
the fuel valve *while the engine is running,* thus running the
carburetor dry.Â* I'm sure there's still *some* fuel in the carb, but
much less.Â* So far this seems to help.

My old BMW motorcycle has float bowls held on by a simple wire clip. At
the end of the riding season, I unclip them and empty them, then add a
bit of Sta-bil gas treatment to the tank. That's worked for 34 years so far.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 20/6/20 9:16 am, John B. wrote:

Goodness Gracious! You are telling us that dick brakes are dangerous?
That they can fail at the most awkward times? Well, then they should
be banned.

Not speaking from experience mind you, I _suspect_ that braking with
your dick or perhaps the dick of another person or animal is dangerous
and the dick used for braking may fail at most awkward times. Indeed
dick brakes should be banned.

--
JS

On 6/20/2020 3:48 PM, James wrote:
On 20/6/20 9:16 am, John B. wrote:

Goodness Gracious! You are telling us that dick brakes are dangerous?
That they can fail at the most awkward times? Well, then they should
be banned.

Not speaking from experience mind you, I _suspect_ that braking with
your dick or perhaps the dick of another person or animal is dangerous
and the dick used for braking may fail at most awkward times.Â* Indeed
dick brakes should be banned.

Post of the month

Mark J.