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XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 1st 03, 09:37 PM
Rocketman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

XTR M960 Cranks: $450
XTR M960 Brifters: $275
XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192

HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?

The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop $2k+
on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything to
them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can get
the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
it's priced like gold.

The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several companies
offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic Motorcycle;
but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura Ace.

Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53 from
JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were $119.
The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it very
soon.

Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

Rocketman

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rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
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  #2  
Old December 2nd 03, 12:47 AM
News Subsystem
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:31 CST, "Rocketman"
wrote:

XTR M960 Cranks: $450
XTR M960 Brifters: $275
XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192

HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?

The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop $2k+
on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything to
them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can get
the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
it's priced like gold.

The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several companies
offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic Motorcycle;
but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura Ace.

Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53 from
JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were $119.
The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it very
soon.

Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

Rocketman


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

  #3  
Old December 2nd 03, 02:13 AM
Rocketman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

"News Subsystem" wrote in message
...
what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong


Which five crank sets has your friend snapped? (brand/model) What makes you
think that XTR won't also snap? Why on earth would you think that getting
the lightest crank would be the same as getting the strongest crank? It
doesn't work like that. XTR cranks will snap under stress. Being XTRa
Xpensive doesn't allow them to violate the laws of physics and material
engineering.

Your XXX large friend needs to try some of the welded tubular CrMo steel
cranks out there. They're about 1/3 the price of XTR, and very, very tough.
Have a look at the FSA X-Drive or the AC 454 DH cranks. I'd be shocked if he
could even bend them, much less break them. He might also be a prime
candidate for the new - and breathtakingly expensive - Shimano Saint DH/FR
components. This may be the only high-end racing-oriented
highly-specialized component group in history that sells *because* it is
heavy. Saint seems ready-made for the big mashers and big-air crazies that
snap cranks and axles, and ruin rear derailleurs against boulders. It's
*very* expensive; but at least it's solving a problem that actually exists,
and saving a trip to the hospital with gaping wounds from a razor-sharp
crank stub gashing open your calf. Gotta say, if it keeps you out of the
hospital once, it's worth the whole price of admission.

Rocketman





On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:31 CST, "Rocketman"
wrote:

XTR M960 Cranks: $450
XTR M960 Brifters: $275
XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192

HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?

The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop

$2k+
on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything

to
them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can

get
the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
it's priced like gold.

The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several

companies
offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic

Motorcycle;
but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura

Ace.

Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53

from
JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were

$119.
The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it

very
soon.

Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

Rocketman


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

  #4  
Old December 2nd 03, 01:43 PM
Troy Rappe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns



what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he


XTR is the lightweight race stuff. LX or XT are better for big guys.
But really if he snaps parts like that, get some RaceFace or Truvativ
freeride or downhill cranks.

BTW: It's obviously not from "the sheer power of his pedalling", but rather
some combination of poor riding skills, aggressive drops and his weight.
I speak with some experiance. I'm an x football player and the more
I ride the less I break parts.

As you learn to glide over the trail rather than beat it to submission,
not only do the parts last but you go way faster.

I used to bend a lot of wheels, break chains, helmets, seatposts, cassettes,
chainrings,... but I rarely break stuff anymore. I even crash softer, well
usually,
I sprained my neck a couple months ago by not paying attention on a new
trail.

Big guy parts:
freeride cranks (splined)
custom frame (Ti Seven Sola works for me!)
Marzoochi fork (only big guy fork)
rims (32 spoke triple cross or DH specific )
9 speed Chains and cassettes might last a summer
if this is too much $$ switch to 8 speed, 8 speeds last me at least 2 years.
Thompson Elite seatpost
Thompson Elite stem
Chris King headset (it's worth the money)
Easton's cheapest AL handlebar

When you buy the cheaper parts from the big name manufacturers
you usually get the heavy duty parts. (not including frames and forks)

The most expensive parts are usually the lightest weight, xc race stuff for
the
140 lb rider.

Ogre

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

  #5  
Old December 2nd 03, 01:44 PM
Dave Adnum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

better yet get him to buy some Race Face NORTH SHORE cranks... guaranteed
for the life of the original owner.


"Rocketman" wrote in message
news:MzRyb.277206$ao4.951523@attbi_s51...
"News Subsystem" wrote in message
...
what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong


Which five crank sets has your friend snapped? (brand/model) What makes

you
think that XTR won't also snap? Why on earth would you think that getting
the lightest crank would be the same as getting the strongest crank? It
doesn't work like that. XTR cranks will snap under stress. Being XTRa
Xpensive doesn't allow them to violate the laws of physics and material
engineering.

Your XXX large friend needs to try some of the welded tubular CrMo steel
cranks out there. They're about 1/3 the price of XTR, and very, very

tough.
Have a look at the FSA X-Drive or the AC 454 DH cranks. I'd be shocked if

he
could even bend them, much less break them. He might also be a prime
candidate for the new - and breathtakingly expensive - Shimano Saint DH/FR
components. This may be the only high-end racing-oriented
highly-specialized component group in history that sells *because* it is
heavy. Saint seems ready-made for the big mashers and big-air crazies

that
snap cranks and axles, and ruin rear derailleurs against boulders. It's
*very* expensive; but at least it's solving a problem that actually

exists,
and saving a trip to the hospital with gaping wounds from a razor-sharp
crank stub gashing open your calf. Gotta say, if it keeps you out of the
hospital once, it's worth the whole price of admission.

Rocketman





On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:31 CST, "Rocketman"
wrote:

XTR M960 Cranks: $450
XTR M960 Brifters: $275
XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192

HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?

The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop

$2k+
on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean

anything
to
them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they

can
get
the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry,

but
it's priced like gold.

The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several

companies
offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic

Motorcycle;
but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano

has
been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only

thing
marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura

Ace.

Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in

price.
Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53

from
JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs

for
$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were

$119.
The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your

next
bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it

very
soon.

Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

Rocketman


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
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Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

  #6  
Old December 2nd 03, 03:05 PM
Small Black Dog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

News Subsystem wrote:

SOmeone I know has snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling


lets try and cut out the lies, eh?

Small Black Dog



--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
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  #7  
Old December 2nd 03, 03:12 PM
Small Black Dog
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Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns


He might also be a prime candidate for the new - and breathtakingly expensive
- Shimano Saint DH/FR components.


hmm, they're a fair bit cheaper than XTR. and 'breathtakingly' expensive
is not a term I'd apply to them. £140 GBP is not a lot to pay for the
reputedly mad-strong cranks and BB.

Small Black Dog

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  #8  
Old December 2nd 03, 04:44 PM
Richard Adams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

A friend of mine, whom weighs a bit less than myself, broke components
constantly, but usually from doing big drops. Simply put, if you're
going to ride like that, expect breakage. Sounds like a candidate for
the 8" suspension club. Me, I'm mostly cross country on a hardtail ('93
C'dale Delta V600) and the only parts I've broken were due to wear and
the odd stick pulling the rear der into the spokes. Thousands of miles
without much breakage to report, while trying to keep up with my full
suspension friends.

Troy Rappe wrote:
what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he

XTR is the lightweight race stuff. LX or XT are better for big guys.
But really if he snaps parts like that, get some RaceFace or Truvativ
freeride or downhill cranks.

BTW: It's obviously not from "the sheer power of his pedalling", but rather
some combination of poor riding skills, aggressive drops and his weight.
I speak with some experiance. I'm an x football player and the more
I ride the less I break parts.

As you learn to glide over the trail rather than beat it to submission,
not only do the parts last but you go way faster.

I used to bend a lot of wheels, break chains, helmets, seatposts, cassettes,
chainrings,... but I rarely break stuff anymore. I even crash softer, well
usually,
I sprained my neck a couple months ago by not paying attention on a new
trail.

Big guy parts:
freeride cranks (splined)
custom frame (Ti Seven Sola works for me!)
Marzoochi fork (only big guy fork)
rims (32 spoke triple cross or DH specific )
9 speed Chains and cassettes might last a summer
if this is too much $$ switch to 8 speed, 8 speeds last me at least 2 years.
Thompson Elite seatpost
Thompson Elite stem
Chris King headset (it's worth the money)
Easton's cheapest AL handlebar

When you buy the cheaper parts from the big name manufacturers
you usually get the heavy duty parts. (not including frames and forks)

The most expensive parts are usually the lightest weight, xc race stuff for
the
140 lb rider.

Ogre


--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

  #9  
Old December 2nd 03, 04:51 PM
Shaun Rimmer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns


"Small Black Dog" wrote in message
...
News Subsystem wrote:

SOmeone I know has snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his

pedalling

lets try and cut out the lies, eh?

Small Black Dog


Yeah, tell 'em to stop being such a dick, eh SBD?



Shaun aRe


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  #10  
Old December 2nd 03, 06:12 PM
Dave Adnum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns


"Rocketman" wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
XTR M960 Cranks: $450
XTR M960 Brifters: $275
XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192


Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

Rocketman



alllllready did... and haven't looked back.

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