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LBS owner's essay



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 3rd 20, 12:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default LBS owner's essay

On 8/2/2020 4:19 PM, news18 wrote:

snip

For me, it s 27" tubes and tyres. All the local BS have moved to only
stocking whatever the latest fashion is.


And now there's a worldwide tube shortage. I put in an order in July,
only to be informed that all the tubes I ordered were out of stock. They
are still out of stock. Fortunately I have sufficient quantities for
now, but I'm running low on 26 x 1.50" tubes. I think that the shortage
of tubes is to people trying, then abandoning, tubeless tires.

Ads
  #32  
Old August 3rd 20, 12:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default LBS owner's essay

On 8/2/2020 6:19 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:25:49 -0700, sms wrote:


Because it was widely used I would expect a long-time store to have some
in their shop.


sadly, some parts are just not economical for them to stock.

Andrew's store had them. And to be fair, at least
Off-Ramp had the somewhat compatible Sturmey-Archer nuts that Sheldon
said could be used in a pinch.

But the point I was making is that an LBS can't get upset when you order
stuff online that they have no interest in selling anyway.


For me, it s 27" tubes and tyres. All the local BS have moved to only
stocking whatever the latest fashion is.


Tubes of the appropriate width for 700C and 27" are
completely fungible. The boxes were labeled with both sizes
not all that long ago. Buy 700C tubes in the valve and width
of your choice.

Besides generic 27" tires for older not so special bikes,
which are an inexpensive commodity, Panaracer still offers
Pasela Aramid bead 27" in a choice of widths. Can't imagine
a shop not stocking those but they aren't all that rare.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #33  
Old August 3rd 20, 01:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default LBS owner's essay

On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 10:27:03 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:

Don't remind me of the next scheduled Shimano Nexus gear bath!


A Rohloff HGB is serviced by an oil change every 3000m/5000km. The insertion of the cleaning oil, the extraction of the dirty oil, and the insertion of the new clean running oil is all accomplished with a screw-in syringe, without the oil ever touching your hands. Furthermore, the materials required are less than half the price of a Shimano Nexus oil bath.

Andre Jute
Quad erat demonstrandum
  #34  
Old August 3rd 20, 01:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default LBS owner's essay

On 8/2/2020 4:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

Besides generic 27" tires for older not so special bikes, which are an
inexpensive commodity, Panaracer still offers Pasela Aramid bead 27" in
a choice of widths. Can't imagine a shop not stocking those but they
aren't all that rare.


Schwalbe still has three 27" tires, but is out of stock on two of them.

  #35  
Old August 3rd 20, 02:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default LBS owner's essay

On 8/2/2020 5:27 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2020 2:25 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/1/2020 5:48 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:


Neither a 1.0 metric nor a 26tpi gauge fits exactly on those axles and
Sachs/SRAM doesn't state the thread. Even if you decided that 'something
close' would do, there are no m11x1.0 nuts in common use anywhere, not
autos, not McMaster-Carr or what have you.

From the SRAM techmanual gearhubsystems pdf (archive):
Axle - Ends Diameter - FG 10,5

(FG = Fahrradgewinde)

Your old Winkler-Rauch (book) has all the data on it:
Steigung 0,977; Flankenwinkel 60°;
Außendurchmesser 10,444; Flankendurchmesser 9,924; Kerndurchmesser 9,404;
Gangzahl pro Zoll 26; Gewindetiefe 0,520; Gewinderundung 0,163

I do think it's strange that they settled on non-standard threading for
such a simple part. Despite claims, it can't be for reasons of strength.

Just because Frank Krygowski (or some lean-brained, Chicago corn trader MBA
bozo at SRAM, excuse my Polish), "thinks" a part is non-standard does not
mean it really is not.


I've got no problem with non-standard _parts_. I do have a problem with
non-standard _threads_. Threading standards have been pretty stable for
many, many decades.


FG threads, whether they are copies of British threads or not, were around
decades earlier than post-WW2 ISO.
[] any clue why they would have done that?

When they decided that the usual, thinner FG9,5 rear hub axles weren't
strong enough for the growing O.L.D. of gear hubs, somewhere past the 2sp
IGH era.


That was at least inaccurate. I just looked at a technical drawing of a
1930's 2sp Torpedo hub with FG9,5 on the left, and FG10,5 on the right side
which includes the connection from the cable to the internal shifting mechanism.

So was there a specific reason they couldn't go with 12mm threads? (See
"Preferred Sizes" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_metric_screw_thread


Why would they? In the 1920's, did anyone engineer to facilitate sourcing a
million nuts from the lowest Asian bidder?


Are you saying this SRAM hub was designed and built in the 1920s? If so,
I won't complain about it's weird threading.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #36  
Old August 3rd 20, 02:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default LBS owner's essay

On 8/2/2020 8:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2020 5:27 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/2/2020 2:25 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/1/2020 5:48 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote:


Neither a 1.0 metric nor a 26tpi gauge fits exactly
on those axles and
Sachs/SRAM doesn't state the thread. Even if you
decided that 'something
close' would do, there are no m11x1.0 nuts in common
use anywhere, not
autos, not McMaster-Carr or what have you.

From the SRAM techmanual gearhubsystems pdf (archive):
Axle - Ends Diameter - FG 10,5

(FG = Fahrradgewinde)

Your old Winkler-Rauch (book) has all the data on it:
Steigung 0,977; Flankenwinkel 60°;
Außendurchmesser 10,444; Flankendurchmesser 9,924;
Kerndurchmesser 9,404;
Gangzahl pro Zoll 26; Gewindetiefe 0,520;
Gewinderundung 0,163

I do think it's strange that they settled on
non-standard threading for
such a simple part. Despite claims, it can't be for
reasons of strength.

Just because Frank Krygowski (or some lean-brained,
Chicago corn trader MBA
bozo at SRAM, excuse my Polish), "thinks" a part is
non-standard does not
mean it really is not.

I've got no problem with non-standard _parts_. I do have
a problem with
non-standard _threads_. Threading standards have been
pretty stable for
many, many decades.


FG threads, whether they are copies of British threads or
not, were around
decades earlier than post-WW2 ISO.
[] any clue why they would have done that?

When they decided that the usual, thinner FG9,5 rear hub
axles weren't
strong enough for the growing O.L.D. of gear hubs,
somewhere past the 2sp
IGH era.


That was at least inaccurate. I just looked at a
technical drawing of a
1930's 2sp Torpedo hub with FG9,5 on the left, and FG10,5
on the right side
which includes the connection from the cable to the
internal shifting mechanism.

So was there a specific reason they couldn't go with 12mm
threads? (See
"Preferred Sizes" at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_metric_screw_thread


Why would they? In the 1920's, did anyone engineer to
facilitate sourcing a
million nuts from the lowest Asian bidder?


Are you saying this SRAM hub was designed and built in the
1920s? If so, I won't complain about it's weird threading.



I understood Mr Ruf to mean that a Sachs 2 speed of that era
was engineered with RH 10.5x26 thread.

I assume someone at F&S reasoned that your basic 9.5mm
standard axle would be less strong with a hole in the
middle. Once that thread is supported with tooling the next
guy asks 'why not?'

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #37  
Old August 3rd 20, 07:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default LBS owner's essay

On Sunday, 2 August 2020 19:41:52 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/2/2020 6:19 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:25:49 -0700, sms wrote:


Because it was widely used I would expect a long-time store to have some
in their shop.


sadly, some parts are just not economical for them to stock.

Andrew's store had them. And to be fair, at least
Off-Ramp had the somewhat compatible Sturmey-Archer nuts that Sheldon
said could be used in a pinch.

But the point I was making is that an LBS can't get upset when you order
stuff online that they have no interest in selling anyway.


For me, it s 27" tubes and tyres. All the local BS have moved to only
stocking whatever the latest fashion is.


Tubes of the appropriate width for 700C and 27" are
completely fungible. The boxes were labeled with both sizes
not all that long ago. Buy 700C tubes in the valve and width
of your choice.

Besides generic 27" tires for older not so special bikes,
which are an inexpensive commodity, Panaracer still offers
Pasela Aramid bead 27" in a choice of widths. Can't imagine
a shop not stocking those but they aren't all that rare.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


27" tires are pretty rare up here as far as being stocked by a LBS. They'll order them in for you though.

Cheers
  #38  
Old August 3rd 20, 01:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 454
Default LBS owner's essay

Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 10:27:03 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:

Don't remind me of the next scheduled Shimano Nexus gear bath!


A Rohloff HGB is serviced by an oil change every 3000m/5000km. The
insertion of the cleaning oil, the extraction of the dirty oil, and the
insertion of the new clean running oil is all accomplished with a
screw-in syringe, without the oil ever touching your hands. Furthermore,
the materials required are less than half the price of a Shimano Nexus
oil bath.


Storing the plastic junk from the initial hub infusion and later buying the
fresh oils off the local R-dealer's large containers is slightly more messy,
but cheapest. Shimano should absolutely stick to their clever oil pricing
scheme -- it keeps the shops happy who will, purely for environmental
reasons, reuse the remaining bathing oil for the next hub to service, but
motivates a frustrated Nexus rust bather to skip the 11sp Shimano and move
right on to Rohloff, or Pinion.

Quad erat demonstrandum


I'd prefer a quad-saving 27 percent difference for the lightest 2-1 gear
step, but as Rohloff is not likely to ever offer this, I redefined gear 3 as
the second-to last on steepening inclines.
  #39  
Old August 3rd 20, 05:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default LBS owner's essay

On 8/2/2020 6:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

I understood Mr Ruf to mean that a Sachs 2 speed of that era was
engineered with RH 10.5x26 thread.

I assume someone at F&S reasoned that your basic 9.5mm standard axle
would be less strong with a hole in the middle.Â* Once that thread is
supported with tooling the next guy asks 'why not?'


Exactly. They no doubt found that 9.5mm was not sufficient with the hole
and determined that 10.5mm was optimal and didn't want something as big
as 12mm.

I guess they also found that 10mm was not sufficient. Who knows? And it
didn't really matter. They could specify the proper nuts to be supplied.

They may have copied the Sturmey-Archer design but decided to go metric
instead of English and rounded up from 13/32" to 10.5mm.
  #40  
Old August 3rd 20, 05:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 884
Default LBS owner's essay

On Monday, August 3, 2020 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 8/2/2020 6:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

I understood Mr Ruf to mean that a Sachs 2 speed of that era was
engineered with RH 10.5x26 thread.

I assume someone at F&S reasoned that your basic 9.5mm standard axle
would be less strong with a hole in the middle.Â* Once that thread is
supported with tooling the next guy asks 'why not?'


Exactly. They no doubt found that 9.5mm was not sufficient with the hole
and determined that 10.5mm was optimal and didn't want something as big
as 12mm.

I guess they also found that 10mm was not sufficient. Who knows? And it
didn't really matter. They could specify the proper nuts to be supplied.

They may have copied the Sturmey-Archer design but decided to go metric
instead of English and rounded up from 13/32" to 10.5mm.


When you engineer things you don't cut corners so that you need to totally redesign something in the future. The 10.5 instead of a 12 made about as much sense as your normal postings.
 




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