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#191
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AG: Country Roads
On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative interactions. It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out. I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs. It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we could learn something. Online sociology! But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white, IIRC. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#192
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AG: Country Roads
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:54:17 -0400, smharding
wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative interactions. It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out. I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs. SMH I believe that the "Guy in the Escalade" is only at fault if he is wearing a black hat :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#193
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AG: Country Roads
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative interactions. It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out. I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs. It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we could learn something. Online sociology! But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white, IIRC. Although it appears to be the custom for cyclists to always blame "the other guy", particularly when he/she is in a motor vehicle, the California Highway Patrol study demonstrated that in more than half of the motor vehicle - bicycle accidents the cyclist was in violation of traffic regulations, and both the New York and London studies mentioned cyclists injured while in violation of the law. Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might well be the real answer. -- Cheers, John B. |
#194
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AG: The best fluid for hydration
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:34:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:27 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that you like and will drink lots of. I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to "get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And for me, salt substitute works even better. The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate. I believe that adding chemicals to a hydration drink to improve the absorption was the basis for "Gator Aid" and both salt and sugar are added to water to make the "Oral Rehydration Solution" used to treat cholera and typhoid both of which cause severe dehydration. -- Cheers, John B. |
#195
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AG: The best fluid for hydration
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:34:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to "get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And for me, salt substitute works even better. The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate. I like a little fruit juice in my water -- but I *must* have plain water in the other bottle. A usually put a pretty strong dose of fruit juice in my tea, to supply sugar as well as caffeine. I drink more fluid when I ride through nap time, because I want to get my caffeine inside before I get stupid. -- joy beeson at comcast dot net http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/ The above message is a Usenet post. I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site. |
#196
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AG: Country Roads
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:54:14 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might well be the real answer. Telling bike riders what the rules are should be the first step. I have spoken to people who were taught in school that one should ride in the oncoming lane "so you can see them coming", and others were taught that when two riders meet or are overtaken by a car, one should dash across the street in front of the car and force it to pass between them. This somehow "makes more room". -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net |
#197
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AG: Country Roads
On 3/29/2015 7:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote: On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road. When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back before you move toward the edge of the road. On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam wrote: Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do you really want to encourage them to squeeze by? Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words. It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the gorilla's way. It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of little interest to you as you'll be dead. Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed these opinions: First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to encourage them to pass until they can move over. But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width - i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass. And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5 lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner. I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me, dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything on my part. It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal right to the road, too." Cowering at the right just slows their learning process. While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative interactions. It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out. I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs. It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we could learn something. Online sociology! But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white, IIRC. Although it appears to be the custom for cyclists to always blame "the other guy", particularly when he/she is in a motor vehicle, the California Highway Patrol study demonstrated that in more than half of the motor vehicle - bicycle accidents the cyclist was in violation of traffic regulations, and both the New York and London studies mentioned cyclists injured while in violation of the law. Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might well be the real answer. Oh, I'm familiar with the data you mention. I was just talking about the motorists who come up and blare the horn out of pure rudeness. IME, they're extremely unlikely to cause a crash. They just want to show dominance, and inform us that in their screwball opinion, we have no right to the road. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#198
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AG: Country Roads
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:58:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: Oh, I'm familiar with the data you mention. I was just talking about the motorists who come up and blare the horn out of pure rudeness. IME, they're extremely unlikely to cause a crash. They just want to show dominance, and inform us that in their screwball opinion, we have no right to the road. Or, insulated in layers of sound-proofing, they are unaware that you heard them coming when they were a mile away. That's the main purpose of my "I've seen you!" pantomime. I've actually heard people say "a polite toot on the horn". Well, read it; my meatspace friends don't talk about traffic much. -- joy beeson at comcast dot net http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/ http://n3f.home.comcast.net/ -- Writers' Exchange The above message is a Usenet post. I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site. |
#199
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AG: Country Roads
On 27/03/2015 11:00, John B. Slocomb wrote:
But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know? So you trust the driver to manage to judge a tight in lane pass, but not to see you if you are directly in front of them? Andy |
#200
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AG: Country Roads
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:38:49 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:54:14 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might well be the real answer. Telling bike riders what the rules are should be the first step. I have spoken to people who were taught in school that one should ride in the oncoming lane "so you can see them coming", and others were taught that when two riders meet or are overtaken by a car, one should dash across the street in front of the car and force it to pass between them. This somehow "makes more room". Well, if one gives up the responsibility of educating their kids to some other entity than one should not complain about the quality of the education. Should one? -- Cheers, John B. |
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