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3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 15th 19, 02:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

Heh-heh. Motivational psychology in action.

AJ

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 1:01:22 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be fun to try on painted bicycle lanes.

"Town in Iceland Paints 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars"
https://www.boredpanda.com/3d-pedestrian-crossing-island/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


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  #12  
Old May 15th 19, 02:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 1:21:04 AM UTC+1, Ralph Barone wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be fun to try on painted bicycle lanes.

"Town in Iceland Paints 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars"
https://www.boredpanda.com/3d-pedestrian-crossing-island/


That’s got to look just wrong if you approach it from the other side.


Nope, not necessarily. It would depend on the position of the dominant light source, in daylight the sun (for much of the year in Iceland a doubtful quantity), at other times ambient light from shops or streetlamps plus car lamps. The dominant light source would determine whether the painted shadows fall in the right place.

I just wonder whether irrational shadows won't be disturbing enough to make a driver do something stupid. In this regard, notice though that these 3D effects are used in town, where drivers are presumably already driving at low speed, and the difficulty is merely making them pay attention to zebra crossings. The driver will only be startled once, than he'll be expecting such tricks.

Andre Jute
Critics take everything too seriously
  #13  
Old May 15th 19, 05:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Wed, 15 May 2019 07:43:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/14/2019 10:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 20:31:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
(...)
There's another benefit to cycling from pavement art. It might be
possible to paint 3D speed bumps or a brick border wall on the road.
That should at least placate both sides of the separated bicycle lane
debate. Those in favor of a dedicated bicycle lane will get something
that looks much like obstacles to keep the cars out of the bicycle
lane. Those opposed will get the knowledge that both cars and
bicycles can drive over the border wall or bumps without precipitating
an accident. If there's too much crossing over the 3D border wall,
then installing a few random real obstacles should slow down the
adventurous and make them think twice before crossing.


Quite clever, Jeff. That encapsulates the ethos of the
Administrative State; random fatal impediments.


Yep. To insure cooperation, one must sacrifice a few violators to the
traffic gods. That should strike fear into the hearts of the
surviving multitudes sufficient to insure general compliance.

Threats and intimidation are often more effective than actual action.
I was responsible for such a threat about 30 years ago. We had some
new drivers on our road who failed to understand that speeding and
bouncing down our rather sub-standard road would hasten its demise.
Verbal roadside lectures didn't seem to have an effect. So, I painted
the US standard black and yellow diagonal speed bump stripes across
the road in two places. No actual speed bumps, just the paint. The
speeders suddenly cooperated and slowed down, as did visitors, and
even some of the long time resident drivers. I would have expected
the effect to lessen as drivers discovered that there was no actual
speed bump, but the effect seemed to last.

Things became a bit weird about 20 years ago, when we resurfaced the
road and paved over my crude pavement art. There was an immediate
increase in average speed, because drivers thought that the new road
surface was installed specifically to enable them to drive faster. As
usual, verbal lectures failed. Instead of fake painted speed bumps,
it was decided to install actual speed bumps, without the paint. There
were no accidents or fatalities, but there was considerable
complaining. Worse, despite the real speed bumps, the speeding
continued.

I would therefore conclude that it's not speed bumps or barriers that
control traffic, but rather the pavement markings and/or the threat of
installing real speed bumps that produced the desired effect. It
remains to be seen if the same principle also applies to bicycle lane
separation barriers.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #14  
Old May 15th 19, 05:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Wed, 15 May 2019 06:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 1:21:04 AM UTC+1, Ralph Barone wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be fun to try on painted bicycle lanes.

"Town in Iceland Paints 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars"
https://www.boredpanda.com/3d-pedestrian-crossing-island/


That’s got to look just wrong if you approach it from the other side.


Nope, not necessarily. It would depend on the position of the dominant
light source, in daylight the sun (for much of the year in Iceland a
doubtful quantity), at other times ambient light from shops or
streetlamps plus car lamps. The dominant light source would determine
whether the painted shadows fall in the right place.


If you look closely at the photos and renderings of the 3D pedestrian
crossing in the aforementioned URL:
https://www.boredpanda.com/3d-pedestrian-crossing-island/
you might notice that all the parked vehicles on both sides of the
street are pointed in the same direction. Same with all of the other
photos I've found:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=3D+pedestrian+crossing
Vehicles all parked in the same direction would imply that it is a
one-way street, where the markings would be effective and where a
driver is unlikely to approach the crosswalk from the "wrong"
direction. Were the 3D crossing markers installed on a more typical
two way road, the shadows would need to reverse direction to be
believable and effective. At best, that would look strange and
obviously fake to drivers approaching from either direction.

I just wonder whether irrational shadows won't be disturbing
enough to make a driver do something stupid.


It's possible. However, visual oddities are not necessary to inspire
a driver to do something stupid. There are plenty of other
distractions which will produce the same effect. Slamming on the
brakes to avoid ramming the elevated blocks would be the most likely
reaction.

In this regard, notice though that these 3D effects are used in town,
where drivers are presumably already driving at low speed, and the
difficulty is merely making them pay attention to zebra crossings.
The driver will only be startled once, than he'll be expecting such
tricks.


Methinks you might be making too many assumptions. I live on a
lightly traveled road, where one might expect drivers to reduce speed
to avoid potholes, obstacles, tree roots, children, etc. It doesn't
work like that. People will purchase vehicles with high ground
clearance just so they can bounce over these obstacles at maximum
possible speed.

Andre Jute
Critics take everything too seriously


Yep and for good reason. If one wants see a minor change, one does
not ask for a minor change backed by a reasonable argument. Instead,
one asks for a major revolutionary change backed by every possible
logical and emotional weapon available. Since the establishment is by
its very nature rather conservative and resistant to change, the major
revolutionary change will soon be scaled back to a minor change, which
is exactly what the advocates originally wanted. Had they asked only
for a minor change, it would have been rejected. For some unknown
reason, major revolutionary changes and over the top arguments are
often equated with taking the issues involved too seriously. I don't
see a connection, but must admit that excessive zeal is a useful
criticism.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #15  
Old May 15th 19, 05:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 12:22:29 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 07:43:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/14/2019 10:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 20:31:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
(...)
There's another benefit to cycling from pavement art. It might be
possible to paint 3D speed bumps or a brick border wall on the road.
That should at least placate both sides of the separated bicycle lane
debate. Those in favor of a dedicated bicycle lane will get something
that looks much like obstacles to keep the cars out of the bicycle
lane. Those opposed will get the knowledge that both cars and
bicycles can drive over the border wall or bumps without precipitating
an accident. If there's too much crossing over the 3D border wall,
then installing a few random real obstacles should slow down the
adventurous and make them think twice before crossing.


Quite clever, Jeff. That encapsulates the ethos of the
Administrative State; random fatal impediments.


Yep. To insure cooperation, one must sacrifice a few violators to the
traffic gods. That should strike fear into the hearts of the
surviving multitudes sufficient to insure general compliance.

Threats and intimidation are often more effective than actual action.
I was responsible for such a threat about 30 years ago. We had some
new drivers on our road who failed to understand that speeding and
bouncing down our rather sub-standard road would hasten its demise.
Verbal roadside lectures didn't seem to have an effect. So, I painted
the US standard black and yellow diagonal speed bump stripes across
the road in two places. No actual speed bumps, just the paint. The
speeders suddenly cooperated and slowed down, as did visitors, and
even some of the long time resident drivers. I would have expected
the effect to lessen as drivers discovered that there was no actual
speed bump, but the effect seemed to last.

Things became a bit weird about 20 years ago, when we resurfaced the
road and paved over my crude pavement art. There was an immediate
increase in average speed, because drivers thought that the new road
surface was installed specifically to enable them to drive faster. As
usual, verbal lectures failed. Instead of fake painted speed bumps,
it was decided to install actual speed bumps, without the paint. There
were no accidents or fatalities, but there was considerable
complaining. Worse, despite the real speed bumps, the speeding
continued.

I would therefore conclude that it's not speed bumps or barriers that
control traffic, but rather the pavement markings and/or the threat of
installing real speed bumps that produced the desired effect. It
remains to be seen if the same principle also applies to bicycle lane
separation barriers.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Speed bumps! I remember riding home along a paved trail in a park (Massey Creek/Taylor Creek Parks in Toronto, Canada)at dusk and suddenly encountering unpainted speed bumps on the paved trail. I was extremely glad that I was excellent at bunny hopping. I remember thinking that is was dangerous to install unpainted speed bumps on a paved trail that the City KNEW bicyclists used frequently. They sure were fun to practice bunny hopping over though.

Cheers
  #16  
Old May 15th 19, 08:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On 5/15/2019 12:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 07:43:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/14/2019 10:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 20:31:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
(...)
There's another benefit to cycling from pavement art. It might be
possible to paint 3D speed bumps or a brick border wall on the road.
That should at least placate both sides of the separated bicycle lane
debate. Those in favor of a dedicated bicycle lane will get something
that looks much like obstacles to keep the cars out of the bicycle
lane. Those opposed will get the knowledge that both cars and
bicycles can drive over the border wall or bumps without precipitating
an accident. If there's too much crossing over the 3D border wall,
then installing a few random real obstacles should slow down the
adventurous and make them think twice before crossing.


Quite clever, Jeff. That encapsulates the ethos of the
Administrative State; random fatal impediments.


Yep. To insure cooperation, one must sacrifice a few violators to the
traffic gods. That should strike fear into the hearts of the
surviving multitudes sufficient to insure general compliance.

Threats and intimidation are often more effective than actual action.
I was responsible for such a threat about 30 years ago. We had some
new drivers on our road who failed to understand that speeding and
bouncing down our rather sub-standard road would hasten its demise.
Verbal roadside lectures didn't seem to have an effect. So, I painted
the US standard black and yellow diagonal speed bump stripes across
the road in two places. No actual speed bumps, just the paint. The
speeders suddenly cooperated and slowed down, as did visitors, and
even some of the long time resident drivers. I would have expected
the effect to lessen as drivers discovered that there was no actual
speed bump, but the effect seemed to last.

Things became a bit weird about 20 years ago, when we resurfaced the
road and paved over my crude pavement art. There was an immediate
increase in average speed, because drivers thought that the new road
surface was installed specifically to enable them to drive faster. As
usual, verbal lectures failed. Instead of fake painted speed bumps,
it was decided to install actual speed bumps, without the paint. There
were no accidents or fatalities, but there was considerable
complaining. Worse, despite the real speed bumps, the speeding
continued.

I would therefore conclude that it's not speed bumps or barriers that
control traffic, but rather the pavement markings and/or the threat of
installing real speed bumps that produced the desired effect. It
remains to be seen if the same principle also applies to bicycle lane
separation barriers.


There's a neighborhood near here that suffered greatly from fast
cut-through driving. It's streets formed an inviting diagonal between
two busy roads and allowed bypassing a couple traffic lights. Drivers
could save about a minute by cutting through - in other words, they
could save three "traffic eternities" and get to see an extra minute of
Oprah when they got home.

It was a long project, but the neighborhood finally succeeded in getting
"speed humps" (not "bumps") in several places. These are much more wide
and gradual than "sleeping policemen" or log-style speed bumps. They
jostle cars above about 20 mph, but aren't bad below 20 mph. Last I
heard the residents were very happy with the results.

And as a bonus, they're actually fun on a bicycle!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old May 16th 19, 12:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

I take all your points on the Icelandic visual traffic calming joke, Jeff.

However, I was talking about performing arts and literary critics, because they're the kind I know. Indeed, all my life I've written criticism about any performing arts I wasn't practising myself at the time, and literary criticism too any time when I wasn't writing. I gave it up when I seemed to be writing more obits of composers, conductors and performers and writers I'd known than about live performances.

Re the revos, you sound like you've been reading Saul Alinsky.

AJ
[No tag]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:49:28 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 06:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:


Andre Jute
Critics take everything too seriously


Yep and for good reason. If one wants see a minor change, one does
not ask for a minor change backed by a reasonable argument. Instead,
one asks for a major revolutionary change backed by every possible
logical and emotional weapon available. Since the establishment is by
its very nature rather conservative and resistant to change, the major
revolutionary change will soon be scaled back to a minor change, which
is exactly what the advocates originally wanted. Had they asked only
for a minor change, it would have been rejected. For some unknown
reason, major revolutionary changes and over the top arguments are
often equated with taking the issues involved too seriously. I don't
see a connection, but must admit that excessive zeal is a useful
criticism.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  #18  
Old May 16th 19, 05:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 9:54:53 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You don't think that it has anything to do with the population of the
entire country amounting to only 340,000 people? A bit smaller than
Anaheim.


They have a higher population in just your neighborhood in Bangkok don't they? I was just looking at a couple of pictures of Bangkok yesterday and damned if I could see any bike traffic. Of course it was in the downtown area.
  #19  
Old May 16th 19, 10:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Thu, 16 May 2019 09:06:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 9:54:53 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You don't think that it has anything to do with the population of the
entire country amounting to only 340,000 people? A bit smaller than
Anaheim.


They have a higher population in just your neighborhood in Bangkok don't they? I was just looking at a couple of pictures of Bangkok yesterday and damned if I could see any bike traffic. Of course it was in the downtown area.


Well, yes. the population of Bangkok is in excess of 5 million. :-)
But the discussion you responded to was commenting on the number of
automobiles shown in a photo and speculating on whether this was a
factor of the total number of people who lived in the place.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #20  
Old May 17th 19, 05:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default 3D Zebra Crosswalk To Slow Down Speeding Cars

On Fri, 17 May 2019 04:53:29 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 16 May 2019 09:06:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 9:54:53 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You don't think that it has anything to do with the population of the
entire country amounting to only 340,000 people? A bit smaller than
Anaheim.


They have a higher population in just your neighborhood in Bangkok don't they? I was just looking at a couple of pictures of Bangkok yesterday and damned if I could see any bike traffic. Of course it was in the downtown area.


Well, yes. the population of Bangkok is in excess of 5 million. :-)
But the discussion you responded to was commenting on the number of
automobiles shown in a photo and speculating on whether this was a
factor of the total number of people who lived in the place.


Actually, I suggested that the lack of traffic and parked automobiles
might have been a result of the 3D crosswalk art. I also speculated
that there was plenty of traffic before they were installed, and that
all the drivers fled from the area when they saw the 3D pavement art,
possibly to avoid accidentally ramming the blocks. It seems that most
of the online photos and graphic simulations are devoid of
automobiles.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=3D+pedestrian+crossing

It is written that anything worth doing, is also worth overdoing:
https://www.funzug.com/index.php/artwork/incredible-3d-zebra-crossings-from-around-the-world.html

"Velvet rope crosswalk in Montreal, Canada"
https://800016.xyz/files/funzug/imgs/creativity/3d_zebra_crossings_03.jpg
Maybe that will work on a dedicated bicycle lane. However, I still
prefer a brick wall border.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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