Why Are People Here?

On 7/8/2019 12:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
I was particularly fond of my son's company issued beta head unit that showed 8,000 meters of elevation gain when you turned it on -- it spotted him 8,000 feet, which I thought was awesome. Free climbing. He was also supposed to beta test smart glasses with video display, but he passed.

I'm amazed at the data-head cycling contingent. I have no idea how many
meters elevation gain I've ever done. Heck, I don't usually click to see
my average speed - partly because it's too embarrassing.

Many decades ago on our first trip to England, we were staying at a
hostel somewhere in Devon. Another guy and his son bragged that they had
ridden 100 miles to get there that day.

When I later related that to another guy in the hostel, he said in a
dismissive tone, "Oh, he's just doing it for the numbers."

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:27:54 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/8/2019 12:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
I was particularly fond of my son's company issued beta head unit that showed 8,000 meters of elevation gain when you turned it on -- it spotted him 8,000 feet, which I thought was awesome. Free climbing. He was also supposed to beta test smart glasses with video display, but he passed.

I'm amazed at the data-head cycling contingent. I have no idea how many
meters elevation gain I've ever done. Heck, I don't usually click to see
my average speed - partly because it's too embarrassing.

Many decades ago on our first trip to England, we were staying at a
hostel somewhere in Devon. Another guy and his son bragged that they had
ridden 100 miles to get there that day.

When I later related that to another guy in the hostel, he said in a
dismissive tone, "Oh, he's just doing it for the numbers."

I don't even have an odometer/speedometer, but I'll probably get one or download Strava and have my phone do it. I do like to know how far I've gone and the elevation, although its not that important.

I no longer criticize the data-driven. First, people can do what they want to do (being data OCD is harmless), and second, for those who are training -- bicycling, weight lifting, what-have-you -- the studied seem to make huge improvements. I'm not training for anything except riding with my son in Utah. Data is not that important to me, and knowing my power would be downright depressing.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 7/8/2019 1:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:27:54 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm amazed at the data-head cycling contingent. I have no idea how many
meters elevation gain I've ever done. Heck, I don't usually click to see
my average speed - partly because it's too embarrassing.

Many decades ago on our first trip to England, we were staying at a
hostel somewhere in Devon. Another guy and his son bragged that they had
ridden 100 miles to get there that day.

When I later related that to another guy in the hostel, he said in a
dismissive tone, "Oh, he's just doing it for the numbers."

I don't even have an odometer/speedometer, but I'll probably get one or download Strava and have my phone do it. I do like to know how far I've gone and the elevation, although its not that important.

I no longer criticize the data-driven. First, people can do what they want to do (being data OCD is harmless), and second, for those who are training -- bicycling, weight lifting, what-have-you -- the studied seem to make huge improvements. I'm not training for anything except riding with my son in Utah. Data is not that important to me, and knowing my power would be downright depressing.

I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.

My most unique bike-related data obsession is probably the big U.S. map
on the wall. It's from USGS, 40 years ago, and about five feet wide by
three feet high. It shows no roads, but shows water features and
national parks (back then) plus little circles of apparently randomly
chosen towns. There are maybe 50 towns shown in a typical state.

Starting about the 1970s, I got in the habit of filling in the circle
with a red dot any time I rode at least a mile in that town. Eventually,
it became incentive to ride to new towns, especially on vacation. "Hey,
we're not far from Oswego! I can ride there and get a new dot!"

Occasionally, it's driven my wife crazy. "You're not going to take your
bike out and ride here, are you? It's raining!" "But this will be my
first dot in Oklahoma! Sit tight; I'll be back soon."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:20:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.


Define a racer or a non racer. Why are you so amazed and telling us that again and again followed by another more or less silly story or habit about yourselve or one of your friends/riding buddies.

At the end of my annual week in the real mountains I participated again in the 'Maratona dles Dolomiti' an event with over 9000 participants. All with their own motivation. Some of them just want to finish, most of them want to do 'well' or even win in their class. Even the people who just want to enjoy the stunning scenery prepared themselves in one way or the other using some kind of data (heartrate, progress in average speed, power) to keep track of their progress in their preparation. Everyone, even the ones who took the whole day to finish the shortest distance and just enjoyed the scenery or the company of the fellow cyclist from all over the world will look at the ranking provided by the organisation:

https://services.datasport.com/2019/velo/maradolo/

Some of them just laugh and make fun of themselves, some of the will be happy to see that they done well and some will be disapointed and find a motivation to do better next year. All good and we all have a beer or a pasta afterwards.

Yet here we are stuck with Frank telling us he is amazed, dont understand our motivation to use data and telling us again and again that the improvement in performance using more advanced equipment is irrelevent, non detectable or silly to use for non racers.
You told us you did some races and time trials in the past, but you are to old for that now or to slow, but please stop make snotty remarks about people that didn't gave up on that yet. It makes you a nicer/less annoying person on the web.

Lou

On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 1:35:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:20:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.


Define a racer or a non racer. Why are you so amazed and telling us that again and again followed by another more or less silly story or habit about yourselve or one of your friends/riding buddies.

At the end of my annual week in the real mountains I participated again in the 'Maratona dles Dolomiti' an event with over 9000 participants. All with their own motivation. Some of them just want to finish, most of them want to do 'well' or even win in their class. Even the people who just want to enjoy the stunning scenery prepared themselves in one way or the other using some kind of data (heartrate, progress in average speed, power) to keep track of their progress in their preparation. Everyone, even the ones who took the whole day to finish the shortest distance and just enjoyed the scenery or the company of the fellow cyclist from all over the world will look at the ranking provided by the organisation:

https://services.datasport.com/2019/velo/maradolo/

Some of them just laugh and make fun of themselves, some of the will be happy to see that they done well and some will be disapointed and find a motivation to do better next year. All good and we all have a beer or a pasta afterwards.

Yet here we are stuck with Frank telling us he is amazed, dont understand our motivation to use data and telling us again and again that the improvement in performance using more advanced equipment is irrelevent, non detectable or silly to use for non racers.
You told us you did some races and time trials in the past, but you are to old for that now or to slow, but please stop make snotty remarks about people that didn't gave up on that yet. It makes you a nicer/less annoying person on the web.

Lou

Speaking of data on bicycle computers or data relating to bicycling that some people would like to have. One piece of data that I like to have when out riding hard is heart rate. I don't want to overdo it and have either a stroke or heart attack far from home. Therefore I bought myself a heart rate monitor. Which reminds me I need to get a new battery for the display part of it.

Oh, and to answer Tom's question as to why people come here. It's primarily to gain and to share bicycling related things. Sometimes we give hints or step by step instructions as I did with my seatpost headset cup removal tool and my threadless stem and handle conversion to allow a handlebar bag to be fastened to that unit attached to a seatpost so the bag is behind the rider where even heavily loaded it doesn't affect steering.

Cheers

On 09/07/2019 1:35 a.m., wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:20:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.


Define a racer or a non racer. Why are you so amazed and telling us that again and again followed by another more or less silly story or habit about yourselve or one of your friends/riding buddies.

At the end of my annual week in the real mountains I participated again in the 'Maratona dles Dolomiti' an event with over 9000 participants. All with their own motivation. Some of them just want to finish, most of them want to do 'well' or even win in their class. Even the people who just want to enjoy the stunning scenery prepared themselves in one way or the other using some kind of data (heartrate, progress in average speed, power) to keep track of their progress in their preparation. Everyone, even the ones who took the whole day to finish the shortest distance and just enjoyed the scenery or the company of the fellow cyclist from all over the world will look at the ranking provided by the organisation:

https://services.datasport.com/2019/velo/maradolo/

Some of them just laugh and make fun of themselves, some of the will be happy to see that they done well and some will be disapointed and find a motivation to do better next year. All good and we all have a beer or a pasta afterwards.

Yet here we are stuck with Frank telling us he is amazed, dont understand our motivation to use data and telling us again and again that the improvement in performance using more advanced equipment is irrelevent, non detectable or silly to use for non racers.
You told us you did some races and time trials in the past, but you are to old for that now or to slow, but please stop make snotty remarks about people that didn't gave up on that yet. It makes you a nicer/less annoying person on the web.

Lou


+1

On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 3:35:14 PM UTC+1, duane wrote:
On 09/07/2019 1:35 a.m., wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:20:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.


Define a racer or a non racer. Why are you so amazed and telling us that again and again followed by another more or less silly story or habit about yourselve or one of your friends/riding buddies.

At the end of my annual week in the real mountains I participated again in the 'Maratona dles Dolomiti' an event with over 9000 participants. All with their own motivation. Some of them just want to finish, most of them want to do 'well' or even win in their class. Even the people who just want to enjoy the stunning scenery prepared themselves in one way or the other using some kind of data (heartrate, progress in average speed, power) to keep track of their progress in their preparation. Everyone, even the ones who took the whole day to finish the shortest distance and just enjoyed the scenery or the company of the fellow cyclist from all over the world will look at the ranking provided by the organisation:

https://services.datasport.com/2019/velo/maradolo/

Some of them just laugh and make fun of themselves, some of the will be happy to see that they done well and some will be disapointed and find a motivation to do better next year. All good and we all have a beer or a pasta afterwards.

Yet here we are stuck with Frank telling us he is amazed, dont understand our motivation to use data and telling us again and again that the improvement in performance using more advanced equipment is irrelevent, non detectable or silly to use for non racers.
You told us you did some races and time trials in the past, but you are to old for that now or to slow, but please stop make snotty remarks about people that didn't gave up on that yet. It makes you a nicer/less annoying person on the web.

Lou


+1

Make that +2.

Andre Jute
You can always count on Lou to make sense.

On 7/9/2019 1:35 AM, wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:20:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.


Define a racer or a non racer.

?? Is that a serious question?


Why are you so amazed and telling us that again and again followed by another more or less silly story or habit about yourselve or one of your friends/riding buddies.

At the end of my annual week in the real mountains I participated again in the 'Maratona dles Dolomiti' an event with over 9000 participants. All with their own motivation. Some of them just want to finish, most of them want to do 'well' or even win in their class. Even the people who just want to enjoy the stunning scenery prepared themselves in one way or the other using some kind of data (heartrate, progress in average speed, power) to keep track of their progress in their preparation. Everyone, even the ones who took the whole day to finish the shortest distance and just enjoyed the scenery or the company of the fellow cyclist from all over the world will look at the ranking provided by the organisation:

https://services.datasport.com/2019/velo/maradolo/

Some of them just laugh and make fun of themselves, some of the will be happy to see that they done well and some will be disapointed and find a motivation to do better next year. All good and we all have a beer or a pasta afterwards.

Yet here we are stuck with Frank telling us he is amazed, dont understand our motivation to use data and telling us again and again that the improvement in performance using more advanced equipment is irrelevent, non detectable or silly to use for non racers.
You told us you did some races and time trials in the past, but you are to old for that now or to slow, but please stop make snotty remarks about people that didn't gave up on that yet. It makes you a nicer/less annoying person on the web.

I did some races and time trials in the past. My training was ... riding
my bike. When I did the road racing, the only instrumentation available
was a click-click-click cyclometer. Later, for time trials and rides up
to 200 miles per day, I had a 3 function cyclometer, one that didn't yet
have average or top speed. Honest, Lou, it's possible!

You get to use all the electronics, all the data logging, all the fancy
equipment you want for whatever reason you want. If you like spending
money to increase your average speed by a few percent, have at it! I'm
not attempting to forbid it.

But as I seem to have to repeat to you, this IS a discussion group!
People ARE expected to discuss things like benefits and detriments. I
think that should apply both to one individual's style of riding and to
groups of individuals whose style is different.

Are you trying to forbid that discussion? Are you trying to say we
should approve of every technology that purports to make riding a little
faster or a little better? No disagreement allowed?

How strange.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 10:35:26 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:20:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:



I'm not really criticizing the data-driven cyclists. I'm just amazed at
the phenomenon, in much the same way I'm amazed by the couple I know who
weigh their portions at every meal. I think it makes sense if you're a
racer, to help your training. I'm just amazed that non-racers get that
data hungry.


Define a racer or a non racer. Why are you so amazed and telling us that again and again followed by another more or less silly story or habit about yourselve or one of your friends/riding buddies.

At the end of my annual week in the real mountains I participated again in the 'Maratona dles Dolomiti' an event with over 9000 participants. All with their own motivation. Some of them just want to finish, most of them want to do 'well' or even win in their class. Even the people who just want to enjoy the stunning scenery prepared themselves in one way or the other using some kind of data (heartrate, progress in average speed, power) to keep track of their progress in their preparation. Everyone, even the ones who took the whole day to finish the shortest distance and just enjoyed the scenery or the company of the fellow cyclist from all over the world will look at the ranking provided by the organisation:

https://services.datasport.com/2019/velo/maradolo/

Some of them just laugh and make fun of themselves, some of the will be happy to see that they done well and some will be disapointed and find a motivation to do better next year. All good and we all have a beer or a pasta afterwards.

Yet here we are stuck with Frank telling us he is amazed, dont understand our motivation to use data and telling us again and again that the improvement in performance using more advanced equipment is irrelevent, non detectable or silly to use for non racers.
You told us you did some races and time trials in the past, but you are to old for that now or to slow, but please stop make snotty remarks about people that didn't gave up on that yet. It makes you a nicer/less annoying person on the web.

Lou


I arrived home after 39 miles, 3,500 ft. of climbing and logged it. Just over 2,000 miles and just over 80,000 Ft of climbing. I guess that keeping track of that sort of thing insults Frank whose idea of a ride is down to the village and back.

On 08/07/2019 1:32 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:27:54 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/8/2019 12:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
I was particularly fond of my son's company issued beta head unit that showed 8,000 meters of elevation gain when you turned it on -- it spotted him 8,000 feet, which I thought was awesome. Free climbing. He was also supposed to beta test smart glasses with video display, but he passed.

I'm amazed at the data-head cycling contingent. I have no idea how many
meters elevation gain I've ever done. Heck, I don't usually click to see
my average speed - partly because it's too embarrassing.

Many decades ago on our first trip to England, we were staying at a
hostel somewhere in Devon. Another guy and his son bragged that they had
ridden 100 miles to get there that day.

When I later related that to another guy in the hostel, he said in a
dismissive tone, "Oh, he's just doing it for the numbers."

I don't even have an odometer/speedometer, but I'll probably get one or download Strava and have my phone do it. I do like to know how far I've gone and the elevation, although its not that important.

I no longer criticize the data-driven. First, people can do what they want to do (being data OCD is harmless), and second, for those who are training -- bicycling, weight lifting, what-have-you -- the studied seem to make huge improvements. I'm not training for anything except riding with my son in Utah. Data is not that important to me, and knowing my power would be downright depressing.

-- Jay Beattie.


You find motivation where it works for you. I like keeping track of my
performance. I'm not obsessive about it but it helps keep me motivated
to push.