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Adding weight to a wheel



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 18th 08, 01:48 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
feel the light
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


I used to think that weight was bad, and money was good, so that proper
unicycle design would be a simple matter of striking a balance between
the two.

Pedal weight is the worst, because it rotates out of balance. Crank
weight is second worst, for the same reason, only less so, because it's
closer to the center.

Frame weight sucks, because it just pulls you down, but at least it
just pulls down, and not down and to the side, like pedal- crank
weight.

Certainly hub and rim- tire weight must be bad in many cases. Cranks
spins and jumping would seem easier with a lighter wheel set.

But what about a 36 commuter ? I got this idea with these wrist weight
straps someone left in my yard. They look like the picture. Together
all 3 weighted 4 lbs. I strapped them around 3 spokes and tightened
the Velcro, right at the rim. There was 9 spokes between each of the
weights, to achieve balance. Installation time, 3 minutes.

I have just came back from a 2 hr. ride. I fully expected this to be
a bad idea, but it was free and easy, I couldn't resist just seeing how
bad it was.

Actually I like it ! It was very much like an unweighted wheel. I got
used to the slower turning pretty quick.

There was some very real advantages. I could ride faster with less
concentration. Hard pedal inputs have less effect. The uni tracks
straighter. Balance, no doubt due to the gyro effect, was helpfully
improved. I could easily ride with both hands on the saddle, something
I never much tried before. It had the effect of transforming me into a
smoother rider who could pedal harder and straighter with less effort,
and better balance.

I'm not saying this is for everyone, but 36 riders, and maybe 29'ers
might like to try this. I'm going to leave the weights on for now. I'd
try more weight if I had them !

I guess I'll go to more fat girl's garage sales.


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  #2  
Old March 18th 08, 01:57 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
SHAY_CAM
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


I have thought about this but never tried it. I to relunctant i guess,
but very good on the discovery! i think since someone tested it out i
have a reason to try it.


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  #3  
Old March 18th 08, 02:09 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Nimbusnut
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


The Atlatl, unicycle connection: Bannerstones


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  #4  
Old March 18th 08, 02:13 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
saskatchewanian
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


'here is a thread that I started on the topic last year'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=58856),
unfourtunately it quickly got off topic.

A heavy wheel can definately help your stability and smoothness but
will be much harder to stop and slow down. It will also prevent you
from easily making fine adjustments to prevent caristrophic falls at
high speed...

It was fun untill my collarbone was where my shoulder blade shoud be.


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  #5  
Old March 18th 08, 03:08 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
dangerdog
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


"feel the light" I think you could be onto something good here,existing
unis are definitely eccentrically weighted, as long as the additional
weight doesn't bring too many negatives it would smooth the wheels
rotation.You only have to hold a uni up by the seat post and spin the
wheel to see how out of balance they are.Todays crazy ideas for
tommorrows improved unicycles.


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  #6  
Old March 18th 08, 04:45 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Rowan
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


feel the light wrote:
Pedal weight is the worst, because it rotates out of balance. Crank
weight is second worst, for the same reason, only less so, because it's
closer to the center.

Frame weight sucks, because it just pulls you down, but at least it
just pulls down, and not down and to the side, like pedal- crank
weight.

Certainly hub and rim- tire weight must be bad in many cases. Cranks
spins and jumping would seem easier with a lighter wheel set.


I think pedal weight is not as bad as what you make it out to be. When
the rider is on their pedals- the weight of their legs would be far
more significant than the weight of the pedals- so regardless of how
uneven the unicycle spins when you spin it in mid-air, it is going to
be more uneven with a rider atop it. Fat riders should lose weight
themselves before worrying about shopping for lightweight pedals.

Frame weight doesn't really matter when you are riding unless you are
hopping. Unless it is really heavy then it will drag you back on the
hills. Frame weight does not pull you down unless you are already
falling- the frame weight is balanced on top of the wheel if you are
upright.

Maybe you should do a few long rides on an old steel coker with the
heavy tires- you will soon notice how unnecessary any extra weight is
for stability. I agree with Ken, lighter is better as long as it is
strong enough.


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  #7  
Old March 18th 08, 05:44 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
unisk8r
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


As the wheel gets heavier, the pedalling corrections have less effect on
the wheel. But someone once astutely remarked that every action has an
equal but opposite reaction. So on a heavier wheel, the balance
corrections are made by adjusting the body position relative to the
wheel inertia, where the pedal correction force translates to a body
adjustment rather than a wheel adjustment.

Does this make any sense to anyone else? Would the physicists out there
be able to explain it better?


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  #8  
Old March 18th 08, 07:56 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
FlyByTire
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


I'm not a physicist, but here's what I'm thinking...

As far as forward motion is concerned, there are two methods that work
together as you work to maintain balance over the wheel. The primary
method for smaller wheel sizes is to pedal the unicycle such that the
wheel is slightly ahead of your center of mass as you need to slow
down, or slightly behind your center of mass as you speed up. The more
the wheel is ahead or behind, the faster you slow down or speed up.
However, to maintain balance at a steady speed, the wheel must swing
forward and back constantly so that on average, your center of mass is
directly over the wheel. This takes a fair amount of effort to
maintain.

As the wheel gets larger, the inertia of the wheel (it's resistance to
an instantaneous change in speed) can also be used to an advantage. A
larger, heavier wheel will have a greater resistance to changes in
speed and will allow you to shift your center of mass more quickly and
with less effort than the first method can. The inertia will allow your
center of mass to remain more centered over the wheel, and so you will
use less energy in maintaining balance.

I noticed this difference when I recently begain riding a Coker. I
notice that I spend a lot of energy on my 29er keeping the wheel under
me, and that it feels like it is constantly shifting forward and back
as I ride. On a smooth path, the Coker feels like it stays in position
better and with less effort. I think it is the wheel inertia that makes
the difference. If this is the case, weights added to my 29er could
cause similar improvement. Hmmmm.....

-Aaron


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  #9  
Old March 18th 08, 08:27 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
feel the light
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


I want to emphasis that I only tried this because it was free and easy,
not because I believed it would a useful mod. So I sorta expect others
to be skeptical. I was surprised at the results.

Acceleration was about normal. I'm about 180, the uni was 17 lbs.
before I added 4 lbs to the rim. So I figure the extra 2 % mass I need
to accelerate is unnoticeable in practice. Anyway, it starts and stops
about the same as before. I don't have a brake.

I think that the most positive effect of the rim weights is due to 2
things. A gyroscope like effect that improves balance, and an "engine
like " flywheel effect, that requires fewer good pedal strokes to keep
it up to speed and aiming straight. The whole rig seems much more
forgiving, like riding in a wagon. Corrections that would be needed on
a lighter wheel aren't needed. Hard kicks that would turn a lighter
wheel to the side, move this one so little, that the natural tendency
is to kick harder.

It wasn't more tiring to ride. The extra friction caused by 2 % extra
vehicle weight was made up by the lack of effort needed to control the
thing. My general impression is that this rig is as safe and handles
better then without the weights, particularly at high speeds in a
straight line. It does have a way of making me pedal faster.

Anyway, these weights can be had for 12 $ / pr. of 5 lber's. , that can
be adjusted in 1/2 lb units. I used 3, but they aren't adjustable.

I think I will leave them on for now. Maybe buy the deluxe set of
adjustables later.

If I really get into the heavy 36 rim concept, I have a better design.
I'll use 3 inner tubes. One will have no stem and be slit all around
the inside. This one can be installed into the tire first, with a bit
of rubber cement to hold it in place.

I'll drill a stem hole in the rim 180 degrees opposite of the first
one, then install and inflate 2 tubes. This has 2 advantages. The
flywheel weight is placed farther from the wheel center, then with
spoke wraps. And an edge against punctures. Most punctures would only
get one tube, so the tire would only lose 1/2 pressure, and could be
pumped back up without first needing to fix the flat.


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  #10  
Old March 18th 08, 08:54 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Rowan
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Default Adding weight to a wheel


feel the light wrote:
I want to emphasis that I only tried this because it was free and easy,
not because I believed it would a useful mod. So I sorta expect others
to be skeptical. I was surprised at the results.
...
It wasn't more tiring to ride. The extra friction caused by 2 % extra
vehicle weight was made up by the lack of effort needed to control the
thing. My general impression is that this rig is as safe and handles
better then without the weights, particularly at high speeds in a
straight line. It does have a way of making me pedal faster.


I disagree that it wasn't more tiring to ride. Did you actually do a
long ride or just a regular ride? If you do 100km on a big heavy wheel
you will notice the difference than riding 100km on a lightweight
wheel. Turning a 700c wheel for a long time produces a lot of saddle
soreness but very little muscle soreness because it doesn't take much
work to keep it moving. The heavy Coker wheel is definitely harder to
ride. It covers the k's a bit quicker but you feel the weight on the
uphills. I think effort for controlling a wheel is minimal for skilled
riders compared to the effort of cranking up hills at speed. I am
looking forwards to trying a geared 700c to get some speed without the
burden of the weight.


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