|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
Tom Kunich wrote:
"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message ... I was simply pointing out that a bolt breaking doesn't necessarily result in injury -- which you said it did, at first, without qualification. I'm beginning to get the idea that John is starting to use the group to work off his aggressions that's not an accurate assessment of this situation. this is one of jobst's favorite games - the switch between aggressor and victim. rather than admit to [and correct] one of his frequent mistakes, jobst vociferously and personally attacks instead. then, when the aggressee defends [naturally, because defense of the mistake is unjustified], jobst switches and plays the victim of an "unwarranted" attack! it's grossly inappropriate and highly childish, but apparently a successful strategy when it comes to soliciting sympathy from those who are susceptible to suggestion. which obviously is one of the problems with groups in general. I suppose it is getting to be time to ignore his postings if they aren't going to add anything. |
Ads |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:07:24 -0700, jim beam
wrote: Tom Kunich wrote: "John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message ... I was simply pointing out that a bolt breaking doesn't necessarily result in injury -- which you said it did, at first, without qualification. I'm beginning to get the idea that John is starting to use the group to work off his aggressions that's not an accurate assessment of this situation. this is one of jobst's favorite games - the switch between aggressor and victim. It's possibly true, but in this case I simply and politiely pointed out an inconsistency in what Jobst wrote and he then starts questioning "good faith" rather than simply saying "Yeah, I mispoke" and leaving it at that. So I get annoyed. Tom is still an ass regardless. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
Jim, it appears you have done what you constantly accuse Jobst of
doing - talked about something you haven't actually looked at. The Campy SR post has a semi-circular top with the bolt below on an inner radius. If it breaks, the clamp wants to slide off. The Suntour Superb has a cradle top. Should one bolt fail, the clamp is still cradled on the top of the post. JG |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
JG wrote:
Jim, it appears you have done what you constantly accuse Jobst of doing - talked about something you haven't actually looked at. The Campy SR post has a semi-circular top with the bolt below on an inner radius. If it breaks, the clamp wants to slide off. The Suntour Superb has a cradle top. Should one bolt fail, the clamp is still cradled on the top of the post. i'm aware of that design. and it doesn't have the immediate "dump" fail mode of which jobst accuses it since the post head and the bottom of the cradle are in compression. furthermore, the design which jobst holds up as "superior" really isn't because one bolt at either end of a two-bolt clamp is incapable of preventing tipping, so you're pretty much in the same position. as for ability to follow this thread, you're still making the mistake jobst wants you to make. jobst's response is that of the righteous victim. in reality, /he's/ the [unjustified] aggressor - and you need to learn that distinction. if you can't follow the technical argument, you're in a difficult position because in most cases, it would be correct to assume that a "victim" was the one being wronged. but in this case, the "victim" is actually the one doing the attacking, so you're [successfully] being suckered. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
... Tom Kunich wrote: "John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message ... I was simply pointing out that a bolt breaking doesn't necessarily result in injury -- which you said it did, at first, without qualification. I'm beginning to get the idea that John is starting to use the group to work off his aggressions which obviously is one of the problems with groups in general. I suppose it is getting to be time to ignore his postings if they aren't going to add anything. I plonked ol' Flogittodeathlinson because he's personally abusive and uses dishonest, weasel tactics (like snipping material to hide or, much worse, alter meaning). I've been bending over backwards to give him a break because he's been a REAL(tm) bicycle racer which is rare on these groups. Originally he had a lot of good things to add and was a nice conservative voice from the pack. Lately however, he's gotten pretty weird. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
Tom Kunich wrote:
I've been bending over backwards to give him a break because he's been a REAL(tm) bicycle racer which is rare on these groups. Originally he had a lot of good things to add and was a nice conservative voice from the pack. Lately however, he's gotten pretty weird. No Tom, I just got fed up with your nonsense and stopped being "polite". Plus, as the US goes to hell it's even more disturbing to hear nuts like you and Sorni defending evil. Voting for, say, Bush 1 or Reagan is something we can disagree on and discuss. Supporting, say, Bush 2 for his second term, after what he's done to the constitution, the economy and our soldiers is inexcusable and defense of it really shows who you are. I wish I'd understood you earlier. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
... No Tom, I just got fed up with your nonsense and stopped being "polite". Because you've gone over the edge don't blame it on someone else. Plus, as the US goes to hell it's even more disturbing to hear nuts like you and Sorni defending evil. I find it interesting that you seem intent on spelling Sorinson's name incorrectly. That has a great deal to say about you. Supporting, say, Bush 2 for his second term, after what he's done to the constitution, the economy and our soldiers is inexcusable and defense of it really shows who you are. I wish I'd understood you earlier. What service were you in? |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
i'm aware of that design. and it doesn't have the immediate "dump" fail
mode of which jobst accuses it since the post head and the bottom of the cradle are in compression. Uh, you mean the compression from the rider sitting on it!?!? That doesn't make it stable because actually it's under torque... and if the rider didn't have his weight on the saddle , it wouldn't be a problem. Face it, neither you nor Jobst are competent to state the risk rate of one or two bolt designs. Probably nobody is, as it would require well controlled actuary data sets with enough incidents to be meaningful. That leaves only anecdote and thought experiment to persuade. But why bother? What advantage does a one bolt design have, other than, "Look Ma! One bolt!", over its obvious drawbacks? JG |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
JG wrote:
i'm aware of that design. and it doesn't have the immediate "dump" fail mode of which jobst accuses it since the post head and the bottom of the cradle are in compression. Uh, you mean the compression from the rider sitting on it!?!? That doesn't make it stable because actually it's under torque... er, that's bending, not torque. and the degree depends on rider position. any idea how seat rail positioning evolved? and if the rider didn't have his weight on the saddle , it wouldn't be a problem. Face it, neither you nor Jobst are competent to state the risk rate of one or two bolt designs. really? personally, i feel pretty well qualified to differentiate between torque and bending. Probably nobody is, as it would require well controlled actuary data sets with enough incidents to be meaningful. nobody is qualified to assess risk of one design over another? that's like saying that the only way you can assess whether a plane is airworthy is to crash it so you have "enough incidents to be meaningful"!!! reality check: every single time you sit on your bike seat and it doesn't break, that is an "incident" with a positive outcome. the science of metal fatigue is well advanced and allows very high confidence for given outcomes like this - provided a designer bothers to read any of the last century's worth of research on the subject that is. That leaves only anecdote and thought experiment to persuade. what good is "thought experiment" when one doesn't even grasp enough of the fundamentals to understand the matter at hand? But why bother? What advantage does a one bolt design have, other than, "Look Ma! One bolt!", over its obvious drawbacks? even clamp loading for one. as with many things jobstian, grabbing onto one small element of a design, then broadcasting it as if it's the whole story, leads to gross misunderstanding. embarrassment for the broadcaster too, if they are capable of receiving and not just transmitting. here's reality: double bolt designs offer no significant safety over single bolt because once one bolt goes, the other is unbalanced and cannot sustain anything other than a trivial load. properly executed single bolt designs otoh are absolutely strong enough for the job. proven non-redundant design elements are used throughout a bicycle. there's no logical reason, particularly in view of the above, that a seat post clamp needs, or even can successfully utilize, two bolts. |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Single-Bolt Seatpost saddle slippage?
"jim beam" wrote in message
... JG wrote: Uh, you mean the compression from the rider sitting on it!?!? That doesn't make it stable because actually it's under torque... er, that's bending, not torque. and the degree depends on rider position. any idea how seat rail positioning evolved? As you PEDAL you put rotational loads on the saddle back and forth. You do understand that don't you? Face it, neither you nor Jobst are competent to state the risk rate of one or two bolt designs. really? personally, i feel pretty well qualified to differentiate between torque and bending. And you demonstrated that exactly when? Probably nobody is, as it would require well controlled actuary data sets with enough incidents to be meaningful. nobody is qualified to assess risk of one design over another? that's like saying that the only way you can assess whether a plane is airworthy is to crash it so you have "enough incidents to be meaningful"!!! I see.... You don't have a clue about aircraft design either. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
single or double bolt seat post clamp? | unikid132 | Unicycling | 32 | April 4th 08 07:44 PM |
Deda Zero stem with single bolt steerer clamp | Pete Biggs | Techniques | 4 | January 29th 05 11:31 PM |
Seatpost binder bolt for an RB-1? | Dave | Techniques | 5 | December 22nd 04 05:40 AM |
WTB: Campagnolo 2-bolt seatpost 26.8mm pre '78 | David Bilenkey | Marketplace | 2 | November 17th 04 09:50 PM |
WTB: Campagnolo Campy seatpost binder bolt | Jee Chung | Marketplace | 1 | September 7th 04 01:48 PM |