Lezyne Deca Drive 1500XXL Report

On 2/26/2017 5:29 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I do NOT like any light that has a flashlight type beam that is just a narrowe beam on the road or worse yet just a spot of light on the road.

Me neither. Those narrowly focused beams are not good, whether they're a
dynamo light or a battery powered light.

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 12:44:12 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/25/2017 10:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 11:47:37 PM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:12:35 -0800, sms
wrote:
On 2/24/2017 11:07 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:

You miss the point, again. But since the point has been made to you
many times, it is clear that this is wilful.

Weak response. The points has not been made. Whether this is because
those trying to make it have nothing to back it up, or whether it is
because they feel compelled to defend whatever equipment they happened
to have purchased is not clear.

Ohferpetessake. Seriously? This point has been made multiple times
over a decade or more. Is there something wrong wth your memory?

Battery lights lack utility. They are not just part of the bike, ready
when you need them without having to plan ahead. You have to remove the
battery pack or the entire light, take in the house and charge it up-
uness you're able to park your bike by an outlet and charge it on the
bike. That would help. You have to remember to put it back on the bike
before you go for a ride. And your ride time at night is limited by the
burn time (unless you mount some extra lights or carry extra batteries).
Burn time is affected by temperature and age of the battery. At least
LED lights have much better burn time than halogens. But fundamentally
the functionality of strapped on battery powered lights is limited.

Now, if you're a recreational bike rider who just needs a light to
extend an afternoon ride for 30 minutes or so then this may not seem
bothersome. And you're likely devoted to gram counting and would find
the notion of installing a generator and lamp to be horrific (and on
your CFRP bike there might be some challenges for doing this, anyway).

But my light (SON generator hub and LED lamp on one bike, Sanyo BB
generator and a halogen lamp on the other) is with me on every ride
because it's just part of the bike. I turn on the switch and I have
light when I need it. I'm never caught out having forgotten to put the
light on my bike, or forgot to charge the battery, or the kludge holding
it onto the bike failed and the light launched itself when I hit a bump.
The optics of the light are actually designed for cycling, so they put
the light on the road in a useful fashion. It's bright enough that
descending a hill at 25-30 MPH feels fine. Bright enough to work in the
city (it does get a bit washed out with street lights and headlights
from cars) and to work really well in the dark countryside for all-night
rides.

You ride all night? I can't do anything all night, even sleep. I have my science project SP PD8 and LUXOS B that is fine for dry nights on the road. It's nice not having to charge a light. It's not very useful on trail (I do ride trail commuting -- no mountain lions, but lots of blow-down), and the output is underwhelming when I'm creeping up some of the hills home, and the beam cut-off is positively annoying on steeply undulating MUPS and roads. But its always there, for better or worse -- unless I trash the wheel hitting a pothole or something. If I were riding in Amsterdam every night, I would be entirely satisfied and would want nothing else.

For a fifth the price of my hub and light, I have an 800 lumen all-in-one that produces far more light than my dyno. It has output settings and a pulse mode. It is fine for my sub-hour commute, but I have to remember to charge it. It does run out of juice at full output quickly. The spew-beam is kind of nice in places and on really rainy nights. It's rude at full power in areas of heavy bicycle traffic. For the vast majority of riders, an all-in-one with a good beam pattern and battery life is more than enough. I use that light with my dyno (on pulse) and jack it up to full output for the trail sections. Best of both worlds, but stupidly expensive.

To pretend everything hasn't been said:

Yes, people have different tastes and different requirements. But it's
wrong to pretend that dynamo lights are adequate only in dead-flat
Amsterdamish environments. They get used successfully by serious
enthusiasts in every environment from rolling rural roads to well-lit
cities.

I do reject the idea that we must have 800 lumens, and I disagree that
if one can't see their headlight beam on a wet road, their light is
insufficient. I've been in situations where I couldn't see my car's
headlight beams on a wet road, yet that's never caused me to hit
something on the road. A rock, a stick or the edge of a pothole do
reflect light back to the operator and are visible in the beam, even if
the bulk of the beam reflects forward off the wet surface. The optics
are obvious.

High beam? Sure, nice for riding single track. I seldom do that at
night. If I needed to see upward on a road (why??) I'd probably tilt
the headlamp up a bit.

Regarding dynamo vs. battery - yes, that's a choice. I don't pop
batteries into a boom box and throw it into my car before I drive
somewhere; I use the car's built-in sound system. I use the car's
built-in headlights too. That's what I want with my bike headlight, but
if others differ, that's fine.

But I'm reminded of one good cycling friend who lived two or three miles
from work, but never rode his bike there. He said "By the time I find
my pants clips, find my helmet and mirror, dig out the bungee cords to
strap on my briefcase, remember to get my work shoes in addition to my
cycling shoes, I can just drive to work." By contrast, my mirror is
always in my bike bag. So are the safety pins I use instead of pants
clips. I rode to work in normal shoes. The bungees were always on the
bike's rear rack. The bike and all the equipment were always ready to go..

And my dynamo headlight was always in place and ready to go.

BTW, Jay, I'm curious: Headlights (whether dynamo or battery) have
gotten SO much better in the past five to ten years. What did you use
before then? How terrible was it? How did you get by?


I've wasted a spectacular amount of money on bike lights over the years. I could have spent less on a crack habit.

Earliest light was a handle-bar mounted flashlight and a leg light (paperboy days), then various crappy bottle dynos and incandescent lights from the local Schwinn shop, lots of bicycle specific battery lights like Wonder Lights, then back to a Sanyo BB generator and incandescent light, then back to Wonder Lights (and many others, some from Zefal). I bought a Belt Beacon when it hit the market. Then, upon becoming a professional, I dumped a ton of money into a Specialized knock-off of the early NightSun, which was a dog and a bad purchase. Then I got a NightSun, then a NightRider halogen, then a HID, then a LED. I rebuilt NiCad battery packs and then went to Lion and now have an all-in-one L&M Urban 800 as a front "flasher" (it pulses) that I use with my SP PD8 dyno hub and LUXOS B, and I have an L&M SECA 1400 with a separate, small battery pack that I strap to my stem on the fast bikes when I want to go for a ride at night as opposed to just commuting back and forth. I run it on the 700 lumen setting, which is plenty bright for most riding.

Any of these lights, new or old, would be enough to ride home on an arterial under the street lights on a dry night, I don't need much light to see where I'm going. Its riding through the hills where I need light. Starting with the NightSun with its dual light and giant water-bottle battery pack, you could see the road pretty well. After getting tired of rebuilding battery packs and incandescent bulbs going the way of the Dodo, I looked for lighter, longer-running lights and better beam patterns -- and all the newer lights came with more light output (all part of the lumen wars). I stuck with battery lights until I tried my currrent dyno set-up as an expensive science project.

My LUXOS B is maybe as good as the high beam on my old NightSun -- 300-500 lumens, maybe more. It's fine on dry nights on the paved portion of my commute. I get more light out of my L&M all-in-one, but it has a short battery life at full 800 lumen output -- and probably an annoying amount of spew on a populated MUP or cycletrack. The SECA 1400 will run for a reported five hours on the "medium" 700 lumen setting -- which is far longer than I need. That's a fine light, with a pretty good beam pattern, and its great on trail section at full blast. I got it super-cheap, too ($89 down from multi-hundreds). But you have to charge it, and the separate battery is kind of kludgey.

-- Jay Beattie.

Cheers

SM has a high ambient light level with grey shadows.

Silicone Valley is off candles.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 7:34:32 PM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
Cheers

SM has a high ambient light level with grey shadows.

Silicone Valley is off candles.

no Cateye users ?

went to CE following joy with the computer gem.

$$$ = light 2$$$money = 2x light ...


like owning a vinyl refrigerator

On 2/26/2017 3:43 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip


I've wasted a spectacular amount of money on bike lights over the years. I could have spent less on a crack habit.

Earliest light was a handle-bar mounted flashlight and a leg light (paperboy days), then various crappy bottle dynos and incandescent lights from the local Schwinn shop, lots of bicycle specific battery lights like Wonder Lights, then back to a Sanyo BB generator and incandescent light, then back to Wonder Lights (and many others, some from Zefal). I bought a Belt Beacon when it hit the market. Then, upon becoming a professional, I dumped a ton of money into a Specialized knock-off of the early NightSun, which was a dog and a bad purchase. Then I got a NightSun, then a NightRider halogen, then a HID, then a LED. I rebuilt NiCad battery packs and then went to Lion and now have an all-in-one L&M Urban 800 as a front "flasher" (it pulses) that I use with my SP PD8 dyno hub and LUXOS B, and I have an L&M SECA 1400 with a separate, small battery pack that I strap to my stem on the fast bikes when I want to go for a ride at night as opposed to just commuting back and forth. I run it on the 700 lumen setting, which is plenty bright for most riding.

Any of these lights, new or old, would be enough to ride home on an arterial under the street lights on a dry night, I don't need much light to see where I'm going. Its riding through the hills where I need light. Starting with the NightSun with its dual light and giant water-bottle battery pack, you could see the road pretty well. After getting tired of rebuilding battery packs and incandescent bulbs going the way of the Dodo, I looked for lighter, longer-running lights and better beam patterns -- and all the newer lights came with more light output (all part of the lumen wars). I stuck with battery lights until I tried my currrent dyno set-up as an expensive science project.

My LUXOS B is maybe as good as the high beam on my old NightSun -- 300-500 lumens, maybe more. It's fine on dry nights on the paved portion of my commute. I get more light out of my L&M all-in-one, but it has a short battery life at full 800 lumen output -- and probably an annoying amount of spew on a populated MUP or cycletrack. The SECA 1400 will run for a reported five hours on the "medium" 700 lumen setting -- which is far longer than I need. That's a fine light, with a pretty good beam pattern, and its great on trail section at full blast. I got it super-cheap, too ($89 down from multi-hundreds). But you have to charge it, and the separate battery is kind of kludgey.


Yet it sounds like you completely skipped HID bicycle lights.

And speaking of dynamo lights, at Interbike last September, a Finnish
company, Herrmans, was demonstrating their new dynamo light. It was not
yet for sale.

It is now available for sale, from bike24.com in Germany. It's an
exceptional dynamo light for the price, about $70 plus shipping, and I
thought it was as good as the dynamo lights selling for 3x the price. It
has a wide beam pattern for an StVZO light, as good as is StVZO legal.
As most people know, the problem with StVZO lights is usually that the
beam pattern is too narrow.

"The light pattern is optimized for the rider - super wide, long and
homogeneous light distribution (widest on the market). The H-BLACK PRO
Dynamo head projector light for dynamos 6V (AC) delivers a strong light
output, preliminary of up to 200 lumens. The lamp offers near field
illumination as well as non-flickering illumination also at low speeds.
To be seen by other traffic the H-BLACK PRO Dynamo has additional LEDs
for clear side visibility"

http://www.herrmans.eu/start-english/products?familyId=2209
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=214107

By now, I'm sure that Frank will be having conniptions about me
recommending a product, but let me assure the regular people in this
group that I receive no compensation from the manufacturer or re-seller
for sharing this information.

I'm not sure why Herrmans was demonstrating this light at Interbike,
since apparently they don't have any U.S. sales channel, other than a
few people on eBay. Maybe Andy from Yellow Jersey would want to resell
their products.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 17:20:27 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/26/2017 3:43 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I've wasted a spectacular amount of money on bike lights over the years. I could have spent less on a crack habit.

Earliest light was a handle-bar mounted flashlight and a leg light (paperboy days), then various crappy bottle dynos and incandescent lights from the local Schwinn shop, lots of bicycle specific battery lights like Wonder Lights, then back to a Sanyo BB generator and incandescent light, then back to Wonder Lights (and many others, some from Zefal). I bought a Belt Beacon when it hit the market. Then, upon becoming a professional, I dumped a ton of money into a Specialized knock-off of the early NightSun, which was a dog and a bad purchase. Then I got a NightSun, then a NightRider halogen, then a HID, then a LED. I rebuilt NiCad battery packs and then went to Lion and now have an all-in-one L&M Urban 800 as a front "flasher" (it pulses) that I use with my SP PD8 dyno hub and LUXOS B, and I have an L&M SECA 1400 with a separate, small battery pack that I strap to my stem on the fast bikes when I want to go for a ride at night as opposed to just commuting back and forth. I run it
on
the 700 lumen setting, which is plenty bright for most riding.

Any of these lights, new or old, would be enough to ride home on an arterial under the street lights on a dry night, I don't need much light to see where I'm going. Its riding through the hills where I need light. Starting with the NightSun with its dual light and giant water-bottle battery pack, you could see the road pretty well. After getting tired of rebuilding battery packs and incandescent bulbs going the way of the Dodo, I looked for lighter, longer-running lights and better beam patterns -- and all the newer lights came with more light output (all part of the lumen wars). I stuck with battery lights until I tried my currrent dyno set-up as an expensive science project.

My LUXOS B is maybe as good as the high beam on my old NightSun -- 300-500 lumens, maybe more. It's fine on dry nights on the paved portion of my commute. I get more light out of my L&M all-in-one, but it has a short battery life at full 800 lumen output -- and probably an annoying amount of spew on a populated MUP or cycletrack. The SECA 1400 will run for a reported five hours on the "medium" 700 lumen setting -- which is far longer than I need. That's a fine light, with a pretty good beam pattern, and its great on trail section at full blast. I got it super-cheap, too ($89 down from multi-hundreds). But you have to charge it, and the separate battery is kind of kludgey.

Yet it sounds like you completely skipped HID bicycle lights.

And speaking of dynamo lights, at Interbike last September, a Finnish
company, Herrmans, was demonstrating their new dynamo light. It was not
yet for sale.

It is now available for sale, from bike24.com in Germany. It's an
exceptional dynamo light for the price, about $70 plus shipping, and I
thought it was as good as the dynamo lights selling for 3x the price. It
has a wide beam pattern for an StVZO light, as good as is StVZO legal.
As most people know, the problem with StVZO lights is usually that the
beam pattern is too narrow.

"The light pattern is optimized for the rider - super wide, long and
homogeneous light distribution (widest on the market). The H-BLACK PRO
Dynamo head projector light for dynamos 6V (AC) delivers a strong light
output, preliminary of up to 200 lumens. The lamp offers near field
illumination as well as non-flickering illumination also at low speeds.
To be seen by other traffic the H-BLACK PRO Dynamo has additional LEDs
for clear side visibility"

http://www.herrmans.eu/start-english/products?familyId=2209
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=214107

By now, I'm sure that Frank will be having conniptions about me
recommending a product, but let me assure the regular people in this
group that I receive no compensation from the manufacturer or re-seller
for sharing this information.

I'm not sure why Herrmans was demonstrating this light at Interbike,
since apparently they don't have any U.S. sales channel, other than a
few people on eBay. Maybe Andy from Yellow Jersey would want to resell
their products.


To paraphrase William Shakespeare, "He doth protest too much,
methinks".

" the phrase can be thought of as indicating an unintentional
apophasis' where the speaker who "protests too much" in favor of some
assertion puts into others' minds the idea that the assertion is
false, something that they may not have considered before."
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 25/02/17 18:47, Tim McNamara wrote:

Now, if you're a recreational bike rider who just needs a light to
extend an afternoon ride for 30 minutes or so then this may not seem
bothersome. And you're likely devoted to gram counting and would find
the notion of installing a generator and lamp to be horrific (and on
your CFRP bike there might be some challenges for doing this, anyway).


For my recreating, I found the notion of having a reliable and effective
hub dynamo and fixed light on my road racing bike more appealing than
having a flimsy strap on rechargeable battery powered torch.

Having tried both approaches and watched my peers with their batteries,
poor connections and inappropriate torch beams, it was/is a no brainer.


But my light (SON generator hub and LED lamp on one bike, Sanyo BB
generator and a halogen lamp on the other) is with me on every ride
because it's just part of the bike. I turn on the switch and I have
light when I need it. I'm never caught out having forgotten to put the
light on my bike, or forgot to charge the battery, or the kludge holding
it onto the bike failed and the light launched itself when I hit a bump.
The optics of the light are actually designed for cycling, so they put
the light on the road in a useful fashion. It's bright enough that
descending a hill at 25-30 MPH feels fine. Bright enough to work in the
city (it does get a bit washed out with street lights and headlights
from cars) and to work really well in the dark countryside for all-night
rides.


Yep.

--
JS

On 25/02/17 23:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


My battery light IS utility because I can use it anytime on ANY of my
bikes

If you remembered to charge the battery and install the light and take
the spare charged battery... Both of my regular use bikes have dynamo
powered lights.

and the light lights up a two lane road for enough distance
that I can ride at 40 kph in total darkness and still see a critter
like a skunk in time to stop and avoid getting sprayed.

As can I with my hub dynamo and B&M IQTec Premium light.

I get a good
run time on each battery and I have an extra battery just in case.
the batteries are not that heavy. I absolutely love the convenience
of the external battery pack in winter because I can put the battery
pack inside my clothing where the pack stays warm.

I don't have to consider any of those limitations.

Nor do I have to
worry about slush/ice/salt building up on exposed wires or contacts.

Exposed wires are generally impervious to slush/ice/salt, and the
contacts are housed in a connector. You could grease the connector if
salty water caused a corrosion problem, but I don't have that problem.

Again, it's different strokes for different folks with differing
needs/wants. We can NOT say dynamo lights are superior to battery
lights nor can we say that battery lights are superior to dynamo
lights. It depends on the rider and what they need/want.


You haven't made a very good case for batteries.

--
JS

On 27/02/2017 1:58 AM, James wrote:
On 25/02/17 23:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


My battery light IS utility because I can use it anytime on ANY of my
bikes

If you remembered to charge the battery and install the light and take
the spare charged battery... Both of my regular use bikes have dynamo
powered lights.

and the light lights up a two lane road for enough distance
that I can ride at 40 kph in total darkness and still see a critter
like a skunk in time to stop and avoid getting sprayed.

As can I with my hub dynamo and B&M IQTec Premium light.

I get a good
run time on each battery and I have an extra battery just in case.
the batteries are not that heavy. I absolutely love the convenience
of the external battery pack in winter because I can put the battery
pack inside my clothing where the pack stays warm.

I don't have to consider any of those limitations.

Nor do I have to
worry about slush/ice/salt building up on exposed wires or contacts.

Exposed wires are generally impervious to slush/ice/salt, and the
contacts are housed in a connector. You could grease the connector if
salty water caused a corrosion problem, but I don't have that problem.

Again, it's different strokes for different folks with differing
needs/wants. We can NOT say dynamo lights are superior to battery
lights nor can we say that battery lights are superior to dynamo
lights. It depends on the rider and what they need/want.


You haven't made a very good case for batteries.


Sir Ridesalot's "to each his own" sounds like the right answser to me.

For me, I use USB chargeable lights. They last about 4 hours. I have a
hub at home and the office so I can charge the lights and my Garmin at
the same time. My cell phone as well. I'm not likely to forget
charging them as it's routine.

I have some lights with removable batteries if I want to ride all night
or something but I don't. If I'm not riding in the rain or the dark I
leave the lights home. Yeah, I know - flame war to follow...

I only have two bikes but buying two dynamos and messing with the wheels
when I don't need the lights that often doesn't make sense to me.

But like the man says, to each his own. What's important is to not ride
in the dark without lights.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 10:50:48 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 25/02/17 18:47, Tim McNamara wrote:

Now, if you're a recreational bike rider who just needs a light to
extend an afternoon ride for 30 minutes or so then this may not seem
bothersome. And you're likely devoted to gram counting and would find
the notion of installing a generator and lamp to be horrific (and on
your CFRP bike there might be some challenges for doing this, anyway).


For my recreating, I found the notion of having a reliable and effective
hub dynamo and fixed light on my road racing bike more appealing than
having a flimsy strap on rechargeable battery powered torch.

Having tried both approaches and watched my peers with their batteries,
poor connections and inappropriate torch beams, it was/is a no brainer.

My all-in-one has a very firm connection to the bar and is anything but flimsy. It is a $100 light that I got for $45. It produces more light than my LUXOS B. It just won't run all night -- or even much of the night.

The last thing I want on my racing bike is a draggy hub, a fixed light and wires. If I were doing the PBP, sure -- but not the occasional night ride. I don't jump on my racing bike for all night rides. I don't do anything all night, even sleep.

I ride five days a week at night commuting, so I do have a dyno on my commuter, but looking at the screen shots of the abundant light from the LUXOS B, I think that either the picture is wishful thinking or my SP PD8 is under-powered. And I'm not going to buy another hub and build another wheel to find out. I've spent way too much on a dyno hub and lights.

Its already been said, but what a dyno has going for it is permanence. It's there. You can turn it on. You can get O.K. illumination. No batteries to recharge or throw away. That's great. Would I want it on a fast, twisting road descent or single track. No. And I would not want to drag it around on my racing bike on a sunny day.

Crap, it's snowing. Time to ride to work.

-- Jay Beattie.