Calling all Belgians

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 16:02:12 -0700, Fred Fredburger
wrote:

Clinton never tried to implement a policy whereby openly gay people were
allowed to serve.

Nonsense, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a compromise solution
that resulted when Clinton ran into intense opposition from the
military.

"The law resulted from intense controversy that began on Veterans Day
1992, when President-elect Bill Clinton announced he would allow
professed, open homosexuals to serve in the military. A spontaneous
wave of telephone protests ensued and continued for months. Both the
Senate and House Armed Services Committees conducted twelve
congressional hearings and field trips involving civilian experts and
military people of all ranks.

During that time a Defense Department Working Group was set up and
charged to come up with a compromise plan to implement Clinton’s
intentions. The result was a controversial plan, dubbed "don’t ask,
don’t tell" (DADT), which President Clinton and Pentagon leaders
announced at Fort Meade, VA, on July 19, 1993."

http://www.cmrlink.org/HMilitary.asp?DocID=229

In reality, this was pretty much what had existed for years without
any official plan. As long as a homosexuals in the military kept
their sexual preference to themselves, there was no problem.

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:55:15 -0700, Fred Fredburger
wrote:

The Hollis bot has a bug in it
causing it to occasionally get a fact correct.

I'm afraid it was you who had your facts incorrect. Clinton planned
to allow open homosexuals to serve in the military. That's a fact.

In article ,
Fred Fredburger wrote:

Donald Munro wrote:
Jack Hollis wrote:
It's the weak minded who blindly believe one side over the other just
because they agree with them politically.

Fred Fredburger wrote:
+5 irony points.

You get points for unconscious irony ? That's not fair on competitors who
grok irony, I think I'm going to give Pound a call so he can sort out the
sporting ethics.


Irony points are cheap around here and I only gave 5!

Well, the irony meter has been pegged so many times by Kunich over the years
that it's probably permanently damaged. Five points seems fair.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article ,
Jack Hollis wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:55:15 -0700, Fred Fredburger
wrote:

The Hollis bot has a bug in it
causing it to occasionally get a fact correct.

I'm afraid it was you who had your facts incorrect. Clinton planned
to allow open homosexuals to serve in the military. That's a fact.

Well, that isn't quite what you said in your original post:

"Clinton certainly started out on the wrong foot by trying to allow
openly gay people to serve in the military by rescinding the "don't
ask, don't tell" policy as soon as he took office."

Prior to the "DA,DT" policy that was devised by Powell (at Clinton's request),
the brass *did* ask and if they were not satisfied with the answers they got, that
person was gone.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article ,
Curtis L. Russell wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:26:25 -0400, Jack Hollis
wrote:


History will judge Bush differently from the small, petty people who
bite as his heels today. Bush understands the threat posed by the
Islamists and is doing something about it. His critics are foolish.
They may have the best of intentions, but they are fools nonetheless.

Yep. He's even better at recognizing the threat posed by what used to
be called freedoms and principles and lauded in such liberal rags as
the Readers Digest. Gonzales and Bush have pushed unconscious irony
right into comatose.

Speaking of "freedoms and principals", this is outrageous:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/04/a...of-people.html

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Jack Hollis wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 16:02:12 -0700, Fred Fredburger
wrote:

Clinton never tried to implement a policy whereby openly gay people were
allowed to serve.

Nonsense, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a compromise solution
that resulted when Clinton ran into intense opposition from the
military.

First you say:

"Clinton certainly started out on the wrong foot by ... rescinding the
"don't ask, don't tell" policy as soon as he took office. "

Now you say that Clinton IMPLEMENTED that policy. So you've accepted my
correction. Thanks.

As for how fiercely Clinton tried to force the Pentagon to allow openly
gay people to serve and how intensely they fought back, well, we can
make **** up all day long. The fact remains that the only policy ever
put forth for implementation is the one we have. Nothing else ever got
past discussion.

Bob Schwartz wrote:
****. I *never* should have open sourced Kunich.

I *swear*, I did not write Hollis. He isn't mine.

Judging by some Pelosi posts, somebody seems to have copy pasted your
Kunich obsession code into a fat client zombie process.

Donald Munro wrote:

But it's all true in the Kunich-Cheney Universe where there are no
relativistic reality bending effects due to liberal bias.

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
As in a liberal bias to at least attempt to be open to the truth?

In their universe the spacetime-truth fabric is bent.

On Apr 8, 11:28 pm, Howard Kveck wrote:


Speaking of "freedoms and principals", this is outrageous:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/04/a...of-people.html

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

The enemy is, obviously, anyone who questions the Imperial One. What
complete and total BS.
Bill C

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 20:14:22 -0700, Howard Kveck
wrote:

Well, that isn't quite what you said in your original post:

"Clinton certainly started out on the wrong foot by trying to allow
openly gay people to serve in the military by rescinding the "don't
ask, don't tell" policy as soon as he took office."

Prior to the "DA,DT" policy that was devised by Powell (at Clinton's request),
the brass *did* ask and if they were not satisfied with the answers they got, that
person was gone.

The only change that Clinton got was they temporarily stopped asking
the question, "Are you a homosexual."

In any case, it was his expressed intent to allow openly gay people to
serve in the military. He did this in the second week after he took
office. This damaged his relationship with the military as well as
taught him the limits of his power.