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#421
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
James Annan says:
I suspect that the industry is hoping there are no claims until the problem can be addressed quietly. This is not so much a suspicion as an openly stated fact within the industry. Care to provide a reference for this "fact?" |
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#422
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
ospam (Stephen Baker) wrote in message ...
James Annan says: I suspect that the industry is hoping there are no claims until the problem can be addressed quietly. This is not so much a suspicion as an openly stated fact within the industry. Care to provide a reference for this "fact?" http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1063 "I wrote the article now being commented on (it's on my trade-only site) and have talked to LOTS of fork folk from around the world. None want to go on record with any quotes but all are working hard on long-term solutions. Forks from 2005 onwards will not suffer from the 'Annan problem'." Carlton Reid, editor of www.bikebiz.co.uk By the way, if you really have a question to put to me, a.m-b generally isn't the best place for it, as I only skim it occasionally. But if you just want to make a snide comment behind my back, feel free to cut out the x-post again... James |
#423
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
James Annan says:
Care to provide a reference for this "fact?" http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1063 Thanks - I'll go look at that in a min. By the way, if you really have a question to put to me, a.m-b generally isn't the best place for it, as I only skim it occasionally. Well, if you want to say things on the newsgroup I frequent, that's where you're gonna get your answer. But if you just want to make a snide comment behind my back, feel free to cut out the x-post again... All snide comments made face-to-face, so to speak. It's no fun behind your back... If the x-post was cut, please blame AOHell, who don't give me an option to x-post or not, it just goes where they say it goes. Steve |
#424
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
James Annan wrote:
Tony Raven wrote: Specialized have already had a recall for mounting tab failures. When? If you mean the recent recall of bikes with too large a rotor installed, there were NO failures and no evidence that there ever would be any failures. The problem was merely that the combination had not been properly checked. Puts the current situation regarding disks and QRs into context, don't you think? James I should choose my words more carefully. I should have said that "Specialized have already had a recall for _potential_ mounting tab failures" The CPSC release said: Hazard: During heavy braking, the brake tabs on the front forks could break off, possibly causing a loss of control and fall from the bicycle. Tony |
#425
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
in message , Chris Malcolm
') wrote: Simon Brooke writes: in message , Tim McNamara ') wrote: Ummm, no. The limit of braking power is not the force with which the brake can clamp onto the rim, but the coefficient of friction between the tire and the riding surface. Clean dry pavement offers a higher coefficient of friction than dirt with the same tires, although perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement pavement. Speaking as someone who regularly rides both types of bikes, I don't agree with you. Mind you, I could be wrong - the caliper brakes on my road bike are single pivot and not especially clever. I don't know the extreme limits of braking on either system, since I'm now to old and have too much respect for the fragility of my skull to just slam on the anchors and see what happens. But I do know that I can stop shorter - a lot shorter - on my hill bike than on my road bike, on the same road and braking from the same speed. I presume that on both bikes you can brake hard enough to skid the front wheel. No idea. I don't do so; perhaps I could, but like I say I have no interest in the 'ejector seat' technique of coming to rest. If you're higher off the ground on your road bike it won't be able to stop as fast. Don't think so. The saddles on all my bikes are the same height, modulo normal suspension compression; likewise the handlebars. However the angles on the hill bikes are a lot slacker, and I do habitually slip off hte back of the saddle to brake hard on the hill bikes. So perhaps the difference is just that I get my CoG further back. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal; And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o th lies o a past that we know wis never real. |
#426
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
Doug Taylor wrote in message . ..
Tim McNamara wrote: Well, now, that was certainly a charming response. It's unclear on what grounds you think this to be the case, nor why you felt the need for spurious invective. Ah, well, like many mysteries it will no doubt remain unexplained. Au contraire. This from you: "I too have been told by mountain bikers "dude, you've got no business being out here on that road bike" on trails that are easily negotiated on a "road" bike (although the bike in question was a cyclo-cross bike), especially evidence by the fact that I was passing some of them. Many mountain bikers have an exaggerated view of what equipment is necessary to ride through a given terrain." Gag me with a spoon. Maybe a trifle self important and sanctimonious? Indeed. Tim holds himself above all others when commenting on this issue, even though his training and expertise certainly do not qualify him to be any kind of authority on any of the subjects under discussion. Sorry, but for the people who post in alt.mountain-bike, and who ride mountain bikes frequently and in some cases exclusively, you clearly have only a passing acquaintance with the sport, if that. The bikes under discussions are mountain bikes. Nor are you an engineer. Your observations on that subject simply parrot your idol, Brandt. You are really nothing more than a dilettante. Ouch. The truth hurts. Now, why can't you tell the truth about your selfish, destructive sport? /MJV Why not let the mountain bikers who know WTF they are talking about (e.g. Hickey, Raven, Superslinky, Spider) discuss mountain bikes, and the engineers who know WTF they are talking (e.g. Jobst; maybe Annan) about discuss physics and engineering, and YOU get over yourself? LOL. Hey, it's been a while since I went by that handle. Just to correct the record, I do know something about MTBs, but most certainly am NOT any kind of authority. I learn new stuff all the time, and unlearn some old stuff now and again. When it comes right down to it, my big problem with the whole disk brake ejection/QR unscrewing thing is the serious lack of knowledge of initial conditions in the reported failures/near failures. When this issue is brought up, the distraction/obfuscation techniques begin IMMEDIATELY. Every time. The Annan hypothesis goes something like this (my commentary in square brackets): 1. There is an ejection force at the drop-out. [From the simple force diagram, this cannot be denied. The magnitude of the force is questionable, due to the assumption of independent fork legs on Mr. Annan's part. This simplifies the calculations, but might conceal some mitigation.] 2. The QR is not designed to handle the ejection force. [*If* the ejection force is as strong as he says, with no mitigation from the fork legs being more of a unit than his calculations allow for, then he has a possible point. Some QRs greatly exceed the minimum standard clamping force.] 3. The QR will unscrew enough that the ends can get past the retention tabs at the bottom of the drop-out. [This is the weakest part of the hypothesis. It *is* true that some threaded fasteners will unscrew under cyclical loads. Split- and lockwashers are some of the things used to prevent this. But knurled, cammed QRs do not all move of their own accord, and some still do under non-disk brake useage. This implies that *further testing of the issue is required.* Preferably where initial conditions are known and recorded, and how many braking cycles it takes to make stuff move around.] Clearly you are entitled to your opinion, but the officious manner in which you express it is offensive and nauseating . Tim clearly wishes to eat his cake and have it, too. He roundly criticizes anyone who would show a whiff of disdain for Mr. Annan's hypothesis, while engaging in the most sophomoric of ad hominem commentary himself. The worst part is that he adds nothing of substance to the discussion, but rather engages in debate tactics to attempt to belittle his opponents. Hardly a recipe for convincing others to take action. -- Jonesy (formerly Spider) |
#427
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
Jonesey says:
snip ad hominem commentary Listen, if you're going to use "ad hominem" correctly (as an adjectivy-type thingy) you'll ruin the entire ambience of this group ;-) Steve |
#428
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
Stephen Baker wrote:
Listen, if you're going to use "ad hominem" correctly You mean like Jackie Gleason? Or Fred Flintstone? Or Doug Heffernen? Bill "buffoon fan" S. |
#429
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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"
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