|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says: Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says: Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho...Steel_Rim..jpg -- Jay Beattie. -- Jay Beattie. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says: Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#RimsÂ*Â*Â* says: Â*Â*Â*Â*Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles Â*Â*Â*Â*that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to Â*Â*Â*Â*provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high Â*Â*Â*Â*pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the Â*Â*Â*Â*hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, Â*Â*Â*Â*the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead Â*Â*Â*Â*seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Mark J. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#RimsÂ*Â*Â* says: Â*Â*Â*Â*Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles Â*Â*Â*Â*that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to Â*Â*Â*Â*provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high Â*Â*Â*Â*pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the Â*Â*Â*Â*hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, Â*Â*Â*Â*the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead Â*Â*Â*Â*seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Mark J. Until today, I had never heard the term crochet rim. I always called them hook bead rims as distinguished from straight sided rims -- like the Wolber concaves Andrew linked. I built a set of those 4X 27" (I think). Anyway, they were 310mm spokes, and I still have a bunch of them. Totally useless unless I get a $zillion Phil spoke cutter-threader. I don't even remember what I did with the wheels. They weighed a ton, and I hated them. I think I replaced the rims with Mod 58s -- my standard crochet bead touring rim. -- Jay Beattie. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims   says:     Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles     that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to     provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high     pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and     hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that     hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and     hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the     hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,     the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead     seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Mark J. Until today, I had never heard the term crochet rim. I always called them hook bead rims as distinguished from straight sided rims -- like the Wolber concaves Andrew linked. I built a set of those 4X 27" (I think). Anyway, they were 310mm spokes, and I still have a bunch of them. Totally useless unless I get a $zillion Phil spoke cutter-threader. I don't even remember what I did with the wheels. They weighed a ton, and I hated them. I think I replaced the rims with Mod 58s -- my standard crochet bead touring rim. -- Jay Beattie. Yeah Weinmann A124/A129 were real pigs. But we sold tons of them, used to buy them in case-of-50 700C, 27", 36 and 48 drill. For people who eat rims, those were nearly indigestible. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
"Mark J." writes:
On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#RimsÂ*Â*Â* says: Â*Â*Â*Â*Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles Â*Â*Â*Â*that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to Â*Â*Â*Â*provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high Â*Â*Â*Â*pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and Â*Â*Â*Â*hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the Â*Â*Â*Â*hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat, Â*Â*Â*Â*the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead Â*Â*Â*Â*seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â* My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook" in French? |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Crochet vs hook-bead rims
On 1/14/2020 8:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
"Mark J." writes: On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote: So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column at Velonews: https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/tec...blowoff_503717 What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim". Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead, BUT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims   says:     Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles     that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to     provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high     pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and     hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that     hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and     hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the     hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,     the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead     seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD. Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched"). I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all called them hooked-bead. Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source? Mark J. I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775 My sense is that we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho.../Steel_Rim.jpg Yes, that's correct. Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/WEINRIMS.JPG are the modern standard design. Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the author intended to say: The distinction is primarily that hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and /crochet/ rims. Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's worked for me for forty years. Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook" in French? Mais oui! From 'crochet' rims to christening -584 tires as '27.5' to calling a semi an 'assault weapon' to every statement ever released by the Federal Reserve, an avoidance of clear language (or actual obfuscation) is itself a telling point about the message. And the messenger. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
UGG Boots Classic Crochet(5819) $98.99 Save: 34% off | [email protected] | Techniques | 0 | February 8th 09 02:54 PM |
Everything about Wooden Bead | [email protected] | Australia | 0 | March 4th 07 11:54 AM |
Old-school crochet gloves | countalmaviva | General | 1 | October 10th 05 10:17 PM |
aramid bead on non-hook rim? | Jim Smith | Techniques | 3 | May 4th 05 11:11 PM |
Avocet tires on non-hook bead rims? | Frank Krygowski | Techniques | 1 | June 22nd 04 09:31 PM |