Elastomer better than steel springs?

Anybody have experience with elastomer springs? What are the benefits over
steel? Do they last as long? Is the seat more likely to hold together?

Thanks.

On 1/22/2015 12:50 PM, John Doe wrote:
Anybody have experience with elastomer springs? What are the benefits over
steel? Do they last as long? Is the seat more likely to hold together?

Thanks.


You're not getting much help because we just don't know how
to help. There are $30 saddles with elastomer springs which
probably no one on RBT has ever ridden for more than a
block. Those are made in the millions and seem OK to many
riders.

But you're off in a highly subjective area. Personally, I
think Concor saddles are quite nice looking but I just can't
ride that shape. I'm on Turbo/Cinelli and copies only. Given
both Turbo and Concor in hand, most people would say they
look about the same, and yet...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

here, read thru

https://www.google.com/#q=cycling+sa...res+prevention

I'm on Specialized cushy road with A/C hole...see website.

If I train for 50 miles, will ride 75 then my body is off, butt goes numb.

but my butt skin is OK.

If done on a saddle with more movement, butt skin would tear.

Design point is less physical movement, more small shock absorption.

wether or not elastomer wears out before the steel, off course

AMuzi wrote:

You're not getting much help

I asked 25 minutes ago...

On 23/01/15 05:08, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/22/2015 12:50 PM, John Doe wrote:
Anybody have experience with elastomer springs? What are the benefits
over
steel? Do they last as long? Is the seat more likely to hold together?

Thanks.


You're not getting much help because we just don't know how to help.
There are $30 saddles with elastomer springs which probably no one on
RBT has ever ridden for more than a block. Those are made in the
millions and seem OK to many riders.

But you're off in a highly subjective area. Personally, I think Concor
saddles are quite nice looking but I just can't ride that shape. I'm on
Turbo/Cinelli and copies only. Given both Turbo and Concor in hand, most
people would say they look about the same, and yet...


I'm on a stiff as a board and skinny san marco at the moment, and can
ride comfortably all day on it.

I bought a selle italia that is a similar shape for a second bike, but
it is very soft in the middle. It makes me feel like I'm pitching
forward and there's a lot more pressure on my hands. I have to tilt it
up at the nose to compensate, which isn't cool.

Of course these are not "sprung" saddles. A good sprung saddle I
imagine, doesn't sag in the middle, but the whole thing can move up and
down over bumps.


Adding my two bob.

--
JS

On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 2:24:46 PM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

You're not getting much help

I asked 25 minutes ago...

...............

rails function as sprimgs....actually 'spring' may be incorrect....damper or shock absorber ?

'spring' function may be up and dpwn or in and out where all seat functions are absorbant, damping, into heat losses in the material and at the ends. I haven't dissembled a saddle, assume rail ends mount softly endwise into cylindrical recesses, an elastomer plug in the chamber end ?

http://www.westernrubber.com/wp-cont...-catalogue.pdf

Spring rate - is the force required to induce a unit deflection of
spring. A steel spring has a very linear relationship between force and
deflection. Elastomeric springs may or may not be linear depending on
the amount of deflection due to the load.

A steel spring has a linear relationship between force and deflection.
Elastomeric springs may or may not be linear depending on the amount and
direction of the load. Nonlinearity can be designed into elastomeric
springs to achieve certain results. Elastomeric springs also differ from
steel springs in that their stiffness is sensitive to the rate or speed
of deflection. If a rubber spring is deflected quickly, it appears
stiffer than if it is deflected slowly.

An elastomeric spring has another characteristic that a simple steel
spring does not. It has hysteresis damping, C. Figure 4 is a plot of
transmissibility for two levels of damping, ?. As you can see, the
greater the amount of damping, the lower the transmissibility at
resonance, position 1. Positions 2a and 2b have different
transmissibility values for the same frequency ratio when using
different values for damping. This illustrates the compro When an
elastomeric mount is deflected, some energy is converted to heat.
Without damping, a spring mass system will continue to oscillate at its
resonant frequency for an extended time after the input has stopped.
With damping, the oscillations decay more quickly. Damping also has an
effect on transmissibility.

ELASTOMERS FOR VIBRATION ISOLATION
“Rubber” is a synthetic or natural material whose long-coiled, high
molecular weight chains have been cross bridged by certain chemical
ingredients to form a network. It is characterized by the ability to
accept and recover from extreme deformation of 200% or more. The term
“elastomer” includes natural rubber and the many synthetic materials
that possess rubber-like properties.

















Anybody have experience with elastomer springs? What are the benefits
over steel? Do they last as long? Is the seat more likely to hold
together?

Thanks.

On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 10:49:35 PM UTC, James wrote:

A good sprung saddle I
imagine, doesn't sag in the middle, but the whole thing can move up and
down over bumps.

A Brooks saddle, which is really a leather hammock, works by sagging selectively in the middle... Just saying.

As for the whole saddle moving up and down over bumps, that only works well, in my experience at least, when the up and down movement is restrained to those directions, usually by some kind of a parallelogram, as in the Thudbuster. There are other parallelogram sprung seat posts, but the Thudbuster is tuneable and of known reliability.

Frankly, I prefer a Brooks with additional helical springs, in my case three, including one at the nose, on my B73. (The B73 is said to sway sideways a little; I currently weigh 210 pounds, and I've never detected enough sideways sway to disturb my pedalling in the least. It's bull**** by instant "experts" with zero experience.)

But a plain Brooks leather saddle, sprung only by its leather and marginally by its rails, like the B17 could work with a Thudbuster; I know one such successful installation on the bike of a fast heavy tourer (the two apparently mutually exclusive qualifications are reconciled by a "hummingbird cadence") who goes into the rough quite a bit.

Andre Jute
Non-linear response

On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 11:08:33 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/22/2015 12:50 PM, John Doe wrote:
Anybody have experience with elastomer springs? What are the benefits over
steel? Do they last as long? Is the seat more likely to hold together?

Thanks.


You're not getting much help because we just don't know how
to help. There are $30 saddles with elastomer springs which
probably no one on RBT has ever ridden for more than a
block. Those are made in the millions and seem OK to many
riders.

But you're off in a highly subjective area. Personally, I
think Concor saddles are quite nice looking but I just can't
ride that shape. I'm on Turbo/Cinelli and copies only. Given
both Turbo and Concor in hand, most people would say they
look about the same, and yet...

I wore out my Turbos and just wore the cover off my Unicanitor padded saddle. I'm down to my last classic saddle, a late '70s Ideal 2002. I'm going to have to find a modern Turbo equivalent when that goes. I'm also rooting around for something light and comfortable for my racing bike. The OEM Fizik is not doing it for me, and I don't want to try the hit and miss route with the cost of saddles these days.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 1/23/2015 12:43 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 11:08:33 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/22/2015 12:50 PM, John Doe wrote:
Anybody have experience with elastomer springs? What are the benefits over
steel? Do they last as long? Is the seat more likely to hold together?

Thanks.


You're not getting much help because we just don't know how
to help. There are $30 saddles with elastomer springs which
probably no one on RBT has ever ridden for more than a
block. Those are made in the millions and seem OK to many
riders.

But you're off in a highly subjective area. Personally, I
think Concor saddles are quite nice looking but I just can't
ride that shape. I'm on Turbo/Cinelli and copies only. Given
both Turbo and Concor in hand, most people would say they
look about the same, and yet...

I wore out my Turbos and just wore the cover off my Unicanitor padded saddle. I'm down to my last classic saddle, a late '70s Ideal 2002. I'm going to have to find a modern Turbo equivalent when that goes. I'm also rooting around for something light and comfortable for my racing bike. The OEM Fizik is not doing it for me, and I don't want to try the hit and miss route with the cost of saddles these days.


Selle Italia has reissued the Turbo (finally) and SOMA has a
nice analog called TaBo:

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/ta-bo-saddles

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971