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  #11  
Old January 22nd 20, 12:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default WOT (Way off topic)

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 11:34:07 AM UTC, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word, "Vogelsang"?

Thanks


In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search term
you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".

Ned


It's like the difference between the two words in this sentence, both referring to the song, "She sings a song by Schubert." Or more narrowly "the song of birds" as distinct from "birds singing". It's the sort of thing that bedevils translations (not only from German) into English.

Andre Jute
Some things in Teutonic languages (like English) you just have to know
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  #12  
Old January 22nd 20, 09:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default WOT (Way off topic)

Am 21.01.2020 um 12:34 schrieb Ned Mantei:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word,
"Vogelsang"?


In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search term
you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".


Songs and poetry have a poetic licence to use ancient, outdated or
gramatically wrong langauge in order to fit the rhythm better. Place
names traditionally persist outdated language usage by a few centuries.
  #13  
Old January 22nd 20, 12:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 454
Default WOT (Way off topic)

Rolf Mantel schrub:
Am 21.01.2020 um 12:34 schrieb Ned Mantei:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word,
"Vogelsang"?


Admittedly, I was initally afraid Sir might be going climate-panicky,
developing a bicycle-powered manure-spreader!
https://www.vogelsang.info/int/markets/agricultural-technology/

In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search term
you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".


Songs and poetry have a poetic licence to use ancient, outdated or
gramatically wrong langauge in order to fit the rhythm better.


Yes, but not a license to grossly overstuff a song with fairy-tale,
suburbia-pagan, solar-worship, retro-neo folk romanticist cliché:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lange-schatten-long-shadows.html

Even an intermediate student of the language should be able to discern
kitsch and poetry:
https://www.schubertlied.de/index.php/de/die-lieder/429-minnelied-d429

Place names traditionally persist outdated language usage by a few centuries.


--
Kraweel, Kraweel!
Taubtrüber Ginst am Musenhain!
Trübtauber Hein am Musenginst!
Kraweel, Kraweel!
  #14  
Old January 22nd 20, 02:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default WOT (Way off topic)

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 06:37:48 UTC-5, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Rolf Mantel schrub:
Am 21.01.2020 um 12:34 schrieb Ned Mantei:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word,
"Vogelsang"?


Admittedly, I was initally afraid Sir might be going climate-panicky,
developing a bicycle-powered manure-spreader!
https://www.vogelsang.info/int/markets/agricultural-technology/

In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search term
you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".


Songs and poetry have a poetic licence to use ancient, outdated or
gramatically wrong langauge in order to fit the rhythm better.


Yes, but not a license to grossly overstuff a song with fairy-tale,
suburbia-pagan, solar-worship, retro-neo folk romanticist cliché:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lange-schatten-long-shadows.html

Even an intermediate student of the language should be able to discern
kitsch and poetry:
https://www.schubertlied.de/index.php/de/die-lieder/429-minnelied-d429

Place names traditionally persist outdated language usage by a few centuries.


--
Kraweel, Kraweel!
Taubtrüber Ginst am Musenhain!
Trübtauber Hein am Musenginst!
Kraweel, Kraweel!


Interesting. That translation is quite different from the one I got elsewhe


Sie entsteigt der Morgenkühle, (It rises from the morning chill,)
Trägt das helle Licht empor, (Carries up the bright light)
Hüllt das Land in Nebelschwüle, (Shrouds the country in mist)
Vogelsang dringt an mein Ohr. (Bird song reaches my ear.)

Als die Schleier sich entwedeln (When the veils unfold)
Leuchtet mir der grüne Wald, (If the green forest shines for me)
Und von Ferne sieht man's flirren, (And from afar you can see it shimmering,)
Wenn die Sonne hoch erstrahlt. (When the sun shines high.)

Doch dann kehrt sie sich zur Wende, (But then she turns around,)
Reicht mir ihre warme Hand, (Give me her warm hand)
Denn es ziehen aus der Fremde (Because pull it from abroad)
Lange schatten übers Land. (Long shadows across the country.)


Lässt sie ihre Speere sinken (Let her spears sink)
Und ihr scharfer Blick wird weich, (And her sharp look softens)
Dann begehrt aus allen winkeln (Then coveted from all angles)
Auf der Wölfe Schattenreich. (Shadow realm on the wolves.)

Kann ich sie zum bleiben bitten, (Can I ask them to stay)
Wenn die lange Nacht beginnt, (When the long night begins)
Und der Winter seine Schritte (And winter its steps)
Schon in unsre Richtung lenkt. (Already in our direction.)

Doch dann kehrt sie sich zur Wende, (But then she turns around,)
Reicht mir ihre warme Hand, (Give me her warm hand)
Denn es ziehen aus der Fremde (Because pull it from abroad)
Lange schatten übers Land. (Long shadows across the country.)

versus:

She gets out of the morning chill,
drags the bright light above,
covers the land in fog;
birdsong reaches my ear.

As the mists unravel,
the green forest shines on me;
and from the distance you see it flickering
when the sun shines on high.

But then she sweeps around,
gives me her warm hand
because it blows from abroad,
long shadows over the land.

Let her sink her spears,
and her sharp stare will soften
Then coveted from all corners,
in the wolves' shadow empire.

Can I ask her to stay,
when the long night begins,
and the winter already steers
his steps in our direction.
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lange...g-shadows.html

Seems that even translators can't agree on things.

Thanks and cheers
  #15  
Old January 22nd 20, 08:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Posts: 1,563
Default WOT (Way off topic)

On 22/01/2020 09:58, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 21.01.2020 um 12:34 schrieb Ned Mantei:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word,
"Vogelsang"?


In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search
term you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".


Songs and poetry have a poetic licence to use ancient, outdated or
gramatically wrong langauge in order to fit the rhythm better.Â* Place
names traditionally persist outdated language usage by a few centuries.


I believe ****ing predates the act :-)

  #16  
Old January 23rd 20, 01:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 454
Default WOT (Way off topic)

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 06:37:48 UTC-5, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Rolf Mantel schrub:
Am 21.01.2020 um 12:34 schrieb Ned Mantei:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word,
"Vogelsang"?


Admittedly, I was initally afraid Sir might be going climate-panicky,
developing a bicycle-powered manure-spreader!
https://www.vogelsang.info/int/markets/agricultural-technology/

In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search term
you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".

Songs and poetry have a poetic licence to use ancient, outdated or
gramatically wrong langauge in order to fit the rhythm better.


Yes, but not a license to grossly overstuff a song with fairy-tale,
suburbia-pagan, solar-worship, retro-neo folk romanticist cliché:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lange-schatten-long-shadows.html



Interesting. That translation is quite different from the one I got elsewhe


The above is not really good, but certainly an effort given it was probably
done by an East-Asian commie. The free deepl.com bot is not providing a
satisfactory translation, either, btw.


Sie entsteigt der Morgenkühle, (It rises from the morning chill,)

(Throughout the song, the singer is constantly talking at the sun. Sun is
female in German, and only later switching from It to She seems odd.)

Trägt das helle Licht empor, (Carries up the bright light)
Hüllt das Land in Nebelschwüle, (Shrouds the country in mist)

(Never mind that the rapid sequence of morning chill and muggy fog seems
slighty mysterious, meteorologically.)

Vogelsang dringt an mein Ohr. (Bird song reaches my ear.)

Als die Schleier sich entwedeln (When the veils unfold)

(That's obviously diluted fog somehow uncurling.)

Leuchtet mir der grüne Wald, (If the green forest shines for me)

(No If.)

Und von ferne sieht man's flirren, (And from afar you can see it shimmering,)
Wenn die Sonne hoch erstrahlt. (When the sun shines high.)


Doch dann kehrt sie sich zur Wende, (But then she turns around,)
Reicht mir ihre warme Hand, (Give me her warm hand)
Denn es ziehen aus der Fremde (Because pull it from abroad)

(The long shadows wandering over the landscape, from afar, are the subject.)

Lange schatten übers Land. (Long shadows across the country.)


Lässt sie ihre Speere sinken (Let her spears sink)

When she lets ...

Und ihr scharfer Blick wird weich, (And her sharp look softens)
Dann begehrt aus allen winkeln (Then coveted from all angles)
Auf der Wölfe Schattenreich. (Shadow realm on the wolves.)

(Both translations got this wrong because the verb is "aufbegehren" It's the
wolves' shadow realm that rises up from all angles.)

Kann ich sie zum bleiben bitten, (Can I ask them to stay)

.... ask her to stay (Not them, but the sun -- curiously, instead of shutting
up and getting more firewood, the singer is still worshipping beyond sundown
there.)

Wenn die lange Nacht beginnt, (When the long night begins)
Und der Winter seine Schritte (And winter its steps)

guides its steps (Pull up next line's lenkt!)

Schon in unsre Richtung lenkt. (Already in our direction.)


Doch dann kehrt sie sich zur Wende, (But then she turns around,)
Reicht mir ihre warme Hand, (Give me her warm hand)
Denn es ziehen aus der Fremde (Because pull it from abroad)
Lange schatten übers Land. (Long shadows across the country.)


(See above.)

BTW, the audience never learns how the singer actually spent the night and
winter. She probably does not even own a pretty Falkenjagd brand bicycle,
but drove a black Opel Corsa or pastel-colored Renault Twingo home and
turned on the central heating.

Case closed. I hope nobody else also wasted their own lunch break digging
into this WOT.
  #17  
Old January 23rd 20, 03:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default WOT (Way off topic)

On Thursday, 23 January 2020 07:00:14 UTC-5, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 06:37:48 UTC-5, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Rolf Mantel schrub:
Am 21.01.2020 um 12:34 schrieb Ned Mantei:
On 21-01-20 11:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Can anyone here give me an English translation of the German word,
"Vogelsang"?

Admittedly, I was initally afraid Sir might be going climate-panicky,
developing a bicycle-powered manure-spreader!
https://www.vogelsang.info/int/markets/agricultural-technology/

In Switzerland it's a very common place name, and also can be a family
name.If you look at the Swiss topographical map at
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en and enter "Vogelsang" as a search term
you will get more than 30 locations with this name.

Note that birdsong is "Vogelgesang", not "Vogelsang".

Songs and poetry have a poetic licence to use ancient, outdated or
gramatically wrong langauge in order to fit the rhythm better.

Yes, but not a license to grossly overstuff a song with fairy-tale,
suburbia-pagan, solar-worship, retro-neo folk romanticist cliché:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lange-schatten-long-shadows.html



Interesting. That translation is quite different from the one I got elsewhe


The above is not really good, but certainly an effort given it was probably
done by an East-Asian commie. The free deepl.com bot is not providing a
satisfactory translation, either, btw.


Sie entsteigt der Morgenkühle, (It rises from the morning chill,)

(Throughout the song, the singer is constantly talking at the sun. Sun is
female in German, and only later switching from It to She seems odd.)

Trägt das helle Licht empor, (Carries up the bright light)
Hüllt das Land in Nebelschwüle, (Shrouds the country in mist)

(Never mind that the rapid sequence of morning chill and muggy fog seems
slighty mysterious, meteorologically.)

Vogelsang dringt an mein Ohr. (Bird song reaches my ear.)

Als die Schleier sich entwedeln (When the veils unfold)

(That's obviously diluted fog somehow uncurling.)

Leuchtet mir der grüne Wald, (If the green forest shines for me)

(No If.)

Und von ferne sieht man's flirren, (And from afar you can see it shimmering,)
Wenn die Sonne hoch erstrahlt. (When the sun shines high.)


Doch dann kehrt sie sich zur Wende, (But then she turns around,)
Reicht mir ihre warme Hand, (Give me her warm hand)
Denn es ziehen aus der Fremde (Because pull it from abroad)

(The long shadows wandering over the landscape, from afar, are the subject.)

Lange schatten übers Land. (Long shadows across the country.)


Lässt sie ihre Speere sinken (Let her spears sink)

When she lets ...

Und ihr scharfer Blick wird weich, (And her sharp look softens)
Dann begehrt aus allen winkeln (Then coveted from all angles)
Auf der Wölfe Schattenreich. (Shadow realm on the wolves.)

(Both translations got this wrong because the verb is "aufbegehren" It's the
wolves' shadow realm that rises up from all angles.)

Kann ich sie zum bleiben bitten, (Can I ask them to stay)

... ask her to stay (Not them, but the sun -- curiously, instead of shutting
up and getting more firewood, the singer is still worshipping beyond sundown
there.)

Wenn die lange Nacht beginnt, (When the long night begins)
Und der Winter seine Schritte (And winter its steps)

guides its steps (Pull up next line's lenkt!)

Schon in unsre Richtung lenkt. (Already in our direction.)


Doch dann kehrt sie sich zur Wende, (But then she turns around,)
Reicht mir ihre warme Hand, (Give me her warm hand)
Denn es ziehen aus der Fremde (Because pull it from abroad)
Lange schatten übers Land. (Long shadows across the country.)


(See above.)

BTW, the audience never learns how the singer actually spent the night and
winter. She probably does not even own a pretty Falkenjagd brand bicycle,
but drove a black Opel Corsa or pastel-colored Renault Twingo home and
turned on the central heating.

Case closed. I hope nobody else also wasted their own lunch break digging
into this WOT.


Thanks Sepp. I really enjoyed the insights present by you and those who responded.

Cheers
  #18  
Old January 23rd 20, 06:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default WOT (Way off topic)

way off topic, I wonder what became of Carl Fogel?
  #19  
Old January 23rd 20, 07:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default WOT (Way off topic)

On 1/23/2020 11:01 AM, Chalo wrote:
way off topic, I wonder what became of Carl Fogel?


+1
Miss his conversation as well as Gene Daniels'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #20  
Old January 23rd 20, 07:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default WOT (Way off topic)

On 1/23/2020 12:01 PM, Chalo wrote:
way off topic, I wonder what became of Carl Fogel?


Agreed. Fogel Labs was a valuable service!


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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