Important Omission on Folding Bikes

I sent this as customer feedback to Dahon UK today. Support me if you
agree!

***
The One Thing that's Missing on your Great Bikes!

Dear Dahon,

I acquired an Impulse P21 in November and am very pleased with it.

One very important thing, though, is missing on all your bikes: a really

effective anti-theft device. Couldn't you design something that would
somehow
make it impossible for an unauthorized user to make use of your bikes?
I'm
thinking along the lines of something that would make it impossible to
fix the folding mechanism into riding posture. Without the special key
or lock
the bicycle would refuse to stay rigid in the middle. That way no extra
weight
would be added, as is the case carrying around a monstrous u-lock, and
it
shouldn't interfere with the folding mechanism.

It's just that they're great bikes and quite pricey and way too easy to
steal.
I'm reluctant to take my bike on tour with me, even though I bought it
for that
purpose, because I don't want to let it out of my sight!

Yours sincerely,

Elisa Francesca Roselli
Ile de France

I
I sent this as customer feedback to Dahon UK today. Support me if you
agree!

Snip
Couldn't you design something that would
somehow
make it impossible for an unauthorized user to make use of your bikes?
I'm

Snip
I'm reluctant to take my bike on tour with me, even though I bought it
for that
purpose, because I don't want to let it out of my sight!


As a recent purchaser of a Brompton I couldn't agree more. It may not
stop it getting nicked but it would make the bike less of a target.
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
I sent this as customer feedback to Dahon UK today. Support me if you
agree!

***
The One Thing that's Missing on your Great Bikes!

Dear Dahon,

I acquired an Impulse P21 in November and am very pleased with it.

One very important thing, though, is missing on all your bikes: a really

effective anti-theft device. Couldn't you design something that would
somehow
make it impossible for an unauthorized user to make use of your bikes?
I'm
thinking along the lines of something that would make it impossible to
fix the folding mechanism into riding posture. Without the special key
or lock
the bicycle would refuse to stay rigid in the middle. That way no extra
weight
would be added, as is the case carrying around a monstrous u-lock, and
it
shouldn't interfere with the folding mechanism.

It's just that they're great bikes and quite pricey and way too easy to
steal.
I'm reluctant to take my bike on tour with me, even though I bought it
for that
purpose, because I don't want to let it out of my sight!

Yours sincerely,


With a folding bike you can often take it with you and either keep watch
on it or leave it somewhere a lot more secure than in the street. That
will not work all the time, so a lock is necessary. There's no doubt it
is frustrating to get a decent lightweight bike and then have to carry a
very heavy lock to secure it.

However, the problem with your idea is that although it might make the
bike unrideable to a casual thief, it does nothing to prevent it being
thrown in the back of a vehicle and taken away to be fixed up later.
It's not really enough to just make the bike not work. It is far better
for it to be anchored to something that prevents it being removed at all.

I've done quite a lot of touring. It's not possible to avoid every risk.
Carrying a lock is a choice, how much you use it is a choice, and
sometimes you just have to choose whether to leave the bike and your
luggage somewhere while you wander off for a while although there is
nothing to which the bike can be attached . In some places I am quite
relaxed about doing that. In other places I would not dream of it.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

The One Thing that's Missing on your Great Bikes!

Yeah - something incorporated into the frame so that the bike can be folded
around a lampost/sheffield stand and cannot be removed without cutting
through the frame. It would be fairly light because the locking mechanism
is the only thing that needs to be tough - the rest of the lock is the bike
frame so cutting through it would defeat the object.

Bob Downie wrote:
|| I
||| I sent this as customer feedback to Dahon UK today. Support me if
||| you agree!
|||
|| Snip
||| Couldn't you design something that would
||| somehow
||| make it impossible for an unauthorized user to make use of your
||| bikes? I'm
|||
|| Snip
||| I'm reluctant to take my bike on tour with me, even though I bought
||| it for that
||| purpose, because I don't want to let it out of my sight!
|||
||
|| As a recent purchaser of a Brompton I couldn't agree more. It may not
|| stop it getting nicked but it would make the bike less of a target.

Why would it be less of a target? Even if the person doing the stealing
isn't aware that it can't be ridden, it may still get stolen. A lot of the
time theft is the result of opportunity. Having a heavy U-lock on it may
deter a lot of would be bike thieves from bothering. Having a non-obvious
theft deferent would be ineffective, IME.

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
I sent this as customer feedback to Dahon UK today. Support me if you
agree!


I've never locked my Brompton up - I just take it with me and have never
yet been refused entry from supermarkets to courts to the poshest
hotels. The problem with your idea is its too easy to just lob it in the
back of a car and sort the problem of the frame out later - they do that
with full size bikes and a truck. What you do need is a different type
of lock because folding bikes generally do not have a conventional
diamond frame to put a lock through.

Tony

On 13/12/04 4:56 pm, in article ,
"JLB" wrote:


With a folding bike you can often take it with you and either keep watch
on it or leave it somewhere a lot more secure than in the street. That
will not work all the time, so a lock is necessary. There's no doubt it
is frustrating to get a decent lightweight bike and then have to carry a
very heavy lock to secure it.

It is a universal law.

weight of bike + weight of appropriate lock = constant.

...d

Why would it be less of a target? Even if the person doing the stealing
isn't aware that it can't be ridden, it may still get stolen. A lot of the
time theft is the result of opportunity. Having a heavy U-lock on it may
deter a lot of would be bike thieves from bothering. Having a non-obvious
theft deferent would be ineffective, IME.

In the real world you want to get off your bike for 2 minutes to buy a
paper. Locking it can be one pain in the arse (assuming there is
anything to lock it to and you are carrying your 2kg U-lock).

All else being equal, if there is an unattended bike which you cannot
ride next to one you can, odds are that the one you can ride will be
stolen.

It should be simple to implement an integral locking system in a folding
bike so why not. Its far from a perfect security measure but why not
add it anyway?
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

It would be slightly useful against a thief who would jump on and ride
off, but not useful against someone lifting the bike up and putting it
into a vehicle.

With a Brompton you can remove the thingees that hold the steerer and
the frame together, and take them with you.

On a bike with S&S Torque couplings, you can secure the frame around a
post or tree, and you'd need a tool to get it apart (though I suppose
Vise Grips (TM) might also work).

I forwarded your suggestion on to the VP of Dahon (and son of the
founder), since he'd be a better person to answer this than the UK
sales office. If he answers me, I'll post the reply, but he may send
you an e-mail directly. He's a really good guy, I'd be surprised if he
doesn't respond.

Bob Downie wrote:
||| Why would it be less of a target? Even if the person doing the
||| stealing isn't aware that it can't be ridden, it may still get
||| stolen. A lot of the time theft is the result of opportunity.
||| Having a heavy U-lock on it may deter a lot of would be bike
||| thieves from bothering. Having a non-obvious theft deferent would
||| be ineffective, IME.
|||
|| In the real world you want to get off your bike for 2 minutes to buy
|| a paper. Locking it can be one pain in the arse (assuming there is
|| anything to lock it to and you are carrying your 2kg U-lock).
||
|| All else being equal, if there is an unattended bike which you cannot
|| ride next to one you can, odds are that the one you can ride will be
|| stolen.
||

Interesting. The bike is left for 2 minutes. Within that time, someone is
fishing through the unattended bikes to see which can be ridden and which
can't (a big U-lock would tell them quickest). I can see how someone
getting on a folding bike and finding they can't ride it might foil the
attempt....but it won't stop them from putting in the back of a truck if it
can be easily moved.

|| It should be simple to implement an integral locking system in a
|| folding bike so why not. Its far from a perfect security measure but
|| why not
|| add it anyway?

Cost and effectiveness, I would guess. If it's ineffective as a deterent,
but gives the owner a false sense of security (as did the Krypton U-Locks),
then what happens later?

Perhaps this could be an option they will offer their customers.