Bike shops, rules, principles and law

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:22:45 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 4:59:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:24:24 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 05:42:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 12:11:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/21/2021 12:53 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:06:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:
In case you are unaware of it, the standard farm is only 40 acres.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-2000/

:-) It's like shooting fish in a barrel, isn't it?

Yup, but is sort of pitiful in today's world where information is
literally at one's finger tip.

Not quite. Data is at everyone's finger tip. However, to get
information, you either have to processes that data yourself, hire
someone to process it for you, or get it for free from talking heads
or organizations that manipulate the data for their own benefit.
True, one definition of information certainly is "a collection of
facts from which conclusions may be drawn" but one has to assume that
the average person is capable of, at least, limited thought and should
be capable of converting said collection of facts into a reasonably
facsimile of information.

Of course, if one dives straight into the informational stream one
might find that it is very shallow in some places. Or to translate,
"some information is not factual" but then it appears that non-factual
information suits some people's illusions (or delusions) far better
then actual facts :-)

You are perfectly happy to lie through your teeth to prove any point you wish to make. Either that or you are so ****ing stupid it doesn't even occur to you that 75% of all farms have under 100 acres and one farm with 10,000 acres offsets that number you used simply because you wanted to counter my argument. You have something seriously wrong in your head and you have shown it time after time after time in your postings here to the point where everyone but Kragowski doesn't bother with your stupidity. And the only reason that Kragowski does is because he is a communist by nature and doesn't want any conservative thought to be voiced anywhere in the world.

Tommy your problem is that you are somewhat divorced from reality.
Nobody posts simply to counter your posts. Note that when you post one
of your usual sagas about how you rode ten miles and climbed 10,000
feet nobody leaps up and shouts, "No! No! Tommy, it was only 9,999
feet. Do they.

It is only when you post one of your usual great seaming heaps of
manure that people counter your posts... by posting the truth.

As the Good Book says, " you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free.”
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:22:45 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 4:59:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:24:24 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 05:42:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 12:11:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/21/2021 12:53 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:06:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:
In case you are unaware of it, the standard farm is only 40 acres.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-2000/


:-) It's like shooting fish in a barrel, isn't it?

Yup, but is sort of pitiful in today's world where information is
literally at one's finger tip.

Not quite. Data is at everyone's finger tip. However, to get
information, you either have to processes that data yourself, hire
someone to process it for you, or get it for free from talking heads
or organizations that manipulate the data for their own benefit.
True, one definition of information certainly is "a collection of
facts from which conclusions may be drawn" but one has to assume that
the average person is capable of, at least, limited thought and should
be capable of converting said collection of facts into a reasonably
facsimile of information.

Of course, if one dives straight into the informational stream one
might find that it is very shallow in some places. Or to translate,
"some information is not factual" but then it appears that non-factual
information suits some people's illusions (or delusions) far better
then actual facts :-)

You are perfectly happy to lie through your teeth to prove any point you
wish to make. Either that or you are so ****ing stupid it doesn't even
occur to you that 75% of all farms have under 100 acres and one farm
with 10,000 acres offsets that number you used simply because you wanted
to counter my argument. You have something seriously wrong in your head
and you have shown it time after time after time in your postings here
to the point where everyone but Kragowski doesn't bother with your
stupidity. And the only reason that Kragowski does is because he is a
communist by nature and doesn't want any conservative thought to be
voiced anywhere in the world.

Tommy your problem is that you are somewhat divorced from reality.
Nobody posts simply to counter your posts. Note that when you post one
of your usual sagas about how you rode ten miles and climbed 10,000
feet nobody leaps up and shouts, "No! No! Tommy, it was only 9,999
feet. Do they.

It is only when you post one of your usual great seaming heaps of
manure that people counter your posts... by posting the truth.

As the Good Book says, " you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free.”

Problem here is that everyone likes to talk, but nobody likes to listen.

John B. writes:

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:19:02 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 12:11:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/21/2021 12:53 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:06:20 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:
In case you are unaware of it, the standard farm is only 40 acres.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-2000/

:-) It's like shooting fish in a barrel, isn't it?

I vaguely recall that Mythbuseters or someone on YouTube tried the
fish in a barrel or swimming pool using a .22 revolver. The water
slowed the bullet down to almost a stop after a few inches. Some
bullets bounced off the fish. When they switched to a higher power
rifle, they couldn't hit the fish because of parallax at the water/air
boundary. Also the spinning bullet didn't go through the water in a
straight line.

Also, the criteria that Statista cites for a farm follows the IRS
definition of being able to use cash accounting on taxes instead of
accrual accounting. Lots of other benefits to being a farmer:
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/ten-helpful-tips-for-farm-tax-returns
My guess(tm) is that they used the UDA numbers:
Farms and Land in Farms 2019 Summary, February 2020
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/fnlo0220.pdf
To many wealthy individuals, the benefits of being able to deduct
income when it is received, rather than when the income is billed, is
substantial. The result are large numbers of small "farms" where the
major product grown are tax deductions. If I remove such tax farms
from the list of farms, the average size of farms that actually
produce something that can be eaten, is rather large. It certainly
will be larger than 40 acres.

It would be interesting to know the median size of US farms:
Farm Size and the Organization of U.S. Crop Farming (2013)
https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/45108/39359_err152.pdf
The midpoint acreage for U.S. cropland nearly doubled
between 1982 and 2007, from 589 acres to 1,105.
Looks like the conglomerates and corporate farms are growing.

How to Use a Small Farm for Tax Write Offs
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/use-small-farm-tax-write-offs-15880.html

For entertainment, you might enjoy comparing where the fishing fleets
are actually fishing, versus the boundary lines around protected
areas.
https://globalfishingwatch.org
https://globalfishingwatch.org/map/
Zoom in on the Galapagos Islands for a good example of violations of a
protected zone. That's small pickings compared to what's now
happening off the coast of Peru in the last 30 days. By clicking on
the "1 month", you can extend the time to "3 months" to see the real
mess or drag the white dots for up to 1 year. Yep, fish farming is
big business until we kill off all the fish.

But, you could "shoot fish in a barrel" with a shotgun, or maybe a
cannon :-)

I suspect the proverbial barrel was full of salted herring, or perhaps
codfish. Shooting fish in the water, normally with a bow, is not that
easy.

jbeattie writes:

On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 13:23:51 -0500,
Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 10:09:17 +0100, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Only in the midwest USA, farmers are defined to be "someone
who grows corn or soybeans on hundreds/thousands of acres".

I used to pass tomato farms on my way to see my sister in
central Indiana. I rather suspect that they are clustered
around the Red Gold cannery not too far east and south of her
place.

I was quite shocked to see the tomatoes harvested by combine
and shipped in dump trucks. My sister once saw a tomato fall
off such a load -- and bounce.

A proper tomato would splat when dropped from a much smaller
height.
Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and encountered a
couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem ride in Tippecanoe
county this past summer. I had not seen anything like that around
here before in many tens of thousands miles ridden. Before we
were close enough to see what was being grown, I was thinking,
"What in the world is that smell?" Very familiar, but I couldn't
place it. Weird.

You can do the same thing with the strawberry fields in Watsonville,
Ca. It's like riding through a jar of jam. I get the same jam-jar
experience riding through blackberry fields here in Oregon.

New England smells like Welch's concord grape jelly for a few weeks in
the fall, although the grapes are mostly wild. I had no idea that smell
wasn't brewed up in a lab until I moved here. They're not bad to eat if
you don't mind spitting the skins out.

There are some fragrant crops out there.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/16...g?v=1533238954

Hood River Valley is like a smell-a-thon with the lavender and fruit
trees. Take the train!
https://www.mthoodrr.com/train-rides...ossom-special/

One thing I miss about California is the smell of bay trees and
eucalyptus. Fir and ferns don't have much of a smell. The only thing
I remember about riding through vast acres of corn in Kansas were the
bird-sized grasshopper/locust. No memorable smell, but maybe on a
warm day is smells like corn.

In Austin, Texas, after the first freeze (some years it doesn't) I
remember the smell of millions of dead crickets mouldering in a UT
patio. There were enough to shovel.

Sepp Ruf writes:

Ted Heise wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote:

I used to pass tomato farms on my way to see my sister in
central Indiana. I rather suspect that they are clustered
around the Red Gold cannery not too far east and south of
her place.

I was quite shocked to see the tomatoes harvested by combine
and shipped in dump trucks. My sister once saw a tomato fall
off such a load -- and bounce.

A proper tomato would splat when dropped from a much smaller
height.
Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and encountered
a couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem ride in
Tippecanoe county this past summer. I had not seen anything
like that around here before in many tens of thousands miles
ridden. Before we were close enough to see what was being
grown, I was thinking, "What in the world is that smell?" Very
familiar, but I couldn't place it. Weird.

An oil refinery plus a bit of thyme spice?

You can do the same thing with the strawberry fields in
Watsonville, Ca. It's like riding through a jar of jam. I get
the same jam-jar experience riding through blackberry fields
here in Oregon.

There are some fragrant crops out there.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/16...g?v=1533238954

Hood River Valley is like a smell-a-thon with the lavender and
fruit trees. Take the train!
https://www.mthoodrr.com/train-rides...ossom-special/

One thing I miss about California is the smell of bay trees and
eucalyptus. Fir and ferns don't have much of a smell. The only
thing I remember about riding through vast acres of corn in
Kansas were the bird-sized grasshopper/locust. No memorable
smell, but maybe on a warm day is smells like corn.

Yeah, Indiana is much like Kansas in terms of crop variety. You
do get a little sweetish scent when the corn is pollinating.
Other than that, pretty unremarkable.

Now that you mention it ... before Midwestern corn farming became a chemical
industry, were the harvested fields burnt as they liked to do in Europe?

No idea, but they still burn irrigation ditches to clear them in New
Mexico. Most memorable smell there is tons of roasting green chile in
late August, when everyone buys enough to put in the freezer.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 1/22/2021 2:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 13:23:51 -0500,
Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 10:09:17 +0100, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Only in the midwest USA, farmers are defined to be "someone
who grows corn or soybeans on hundreds/thousands of acres".

I used to pass tomato farms on my way to see my sister in
central Indiana. I rather suspect that they are clustered
around the Red Gold cannery not too far east and south of her
place.

I was quite shocked to see the tomatoes harvested by combine
and shipped in dump trucks. My sister once saw a tomato fall
off such a load -- and bounce.

A proper tomato would splat when dropped from a much smaller
height.
Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and encountered a
couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem ride in Tippecanoe
county this past summer. I had not seen anything like that around
here before in many tens of thousands miles ridden. Before we
were close enough to see what was being grown, I was thinking,
"What in the world is that smell?" Very familiar, but I couldn't
place it. Weird.

You can do the same thing with the strawberry fields in Watsonville,
Ca. It's like riding through a jar of jam. I get the same jam-jar
experience riding through blackberry fields here in Oregon.

There are some fragrant crops out there.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/16...g?v=1533238954

I remember riding west out of Walla Walla WA and being passed by
trucks with huge trailers full of onions. We were dodging onions that
had fallen onto the road.

They grow a lot of onions in my home town, although they're not sweet
like the ones from Walla Walla. Late one night I was driving home and
came across quite a few bags that had fallen off a truck on the highway.
Naturally I picked a couple up, and moved the rest to the shoulder.
Five minutes later I had to pull over because I couldn't see -- falling
off a truck makes those onions pretty pungent. After rolling down all
four windows I was able to drive home.

They used to have a section of the town dump set aside for onions, where
the locals could pick them up. There was absolutely nothing wrong with
them, they just fell between marketable sizes.

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 19:02:49 +0000 (UTC), Ted Heise
wrote:

Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and encountered a
couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem ride in Tippecanoe
county this past summer. I had not seen anything like that around
here before in many tens of thousands miles ridden. Before we
were close enough to see what was being grown, I was thinking,
"What in the world is that smell?" Very familiar, but I couldn't
place it. Weird.

Possibly ethylene gas used to rapidly ripen some commercial tomatoes:
https://www.chefs-garden.com/blog/june-2018/flavorful-fresh-tomatoes-vs-ethylene-gassed-ones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene
... colorless flammable gas with a faint "sweet
and musky" odour when pure.

It might be familiar if you've ever worked with polyethylene plastic.
Try a flame test to some polyethylene plastic and check if it smells
familiar:
https://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/faqs/faq-how-can-i-easily-identify-a-plastic
Polyethylene (PE) - Drips, smells like candlewax

Apples naturally give off ethylene gas as they ripen. Late tomatoes may
be ripened by keeping them in a bag with early apples.

On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 10:17:59 p.m. UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 19:02:49 +0000 (UTC), Ted Heise
wrote:

Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and encountered a
couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem ride in Tippecanoe
county this past summer. I had not seen anything like that around
here before in many tens of thousands miles ridden. Before we
were close enough to see what was being grown, I was thinking,
"What in the world is that smell?" Very familiar, but I couldn't
place it. Weird.

Possibly ethylene gas used to rapidly ripen some commercial tomatoes:
https://www.chefs-garden.com/blog/june-2018/flavorful-fresh-tomatoes-vs-ethylene-gassed-ones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene
... colorless flammable gas with a faint "sweet
and musky" odour when pure.

It might be familiar if you've ever worked with polyethylene plastic.
Try a flame test to some polyethylene plastic and check if it smells
familiar:
https://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/faqs/faq-how-can-i-easily-identify-a-plastic
Polyethylene (PE) - Drips, smells like candlewax
Apples naturally give off ethylene gas as they ripen. Late tomatoes may
be ripened by keeping them in a bag with early apples.

Green bananas too will turn yellow quickly and then brown really quickly if kept near apples.

Cheers

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 20:02:40 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 10:17:59 p.m. UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 19:02:49 +0000 (UTC), Ted Heise
wrote:

Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and encountered a
couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem ride in Tippecanoe
county this past summer. I had not seen anything like that around
here before in many tens of thousands miles ridden. Before we
were close enough to see what was being grown, I was thinking,
"What in the world is that smell?" Very familiar, but I couldn't
place it. Weird.

Possibly ethylene gas used to rapidly ripen some commercial tomatoes:
https://www.chefs-garden.com/blog/june-2018/flavorful-fresh-tomatoes-vs-ethylene-gassed-ones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene
... colorless flammable gas with a faint "sweet
and musky" odour when pure.

It might be familiar if you've ever worked with polyethylene plastic.
Try a flame test to some polyethylene plastic and check if it smells
familiar:
https://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/faqs/faq-how-can-i-easily-identify-a-plastic
Polyethylene (PE) - Drips, smells like candlewax

Apples naturally give off ethylene gas as they ripen. Late tomatoes may
be ripened by keeping them in a bag with early apples.

Green bananas too will turn yellow quickly and then brown really quickly if kept near apples.
Cheers

Lots of fruits and vegetables belch ethylene gas, which hastens
ripening:
"20 Foods You Should Never Store Near Each Other"
https://www.eatthis.com/foods-ethylene-never-store-together/
Keeping them apart is the purpose of the "crisper" in refrigerators.

When I lived in San Jose, California, I had a few tomato plants in the
yard. I don't recall any distinctive smell. However, there seems to
be those who can smell the natural alkaloid bug repellents, similar to
nicotine, emitted by the leaves:
https://www.quora.com/What-causes-the-unique-smell-of-tomato-foliage
So much for my ethelyne gas theory.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 22:06:57 +0100,
Sepp Ruf wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 11:02:53 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote:

I used to pass tomato farms on my way to see my sister in
central Indiana. I rather suspect that they are clustered
around the Red Gold cannery not too far east and south of
her place.

Interesting story, Joy. As it happens, my wife and
encountered a couple large fields of tomatos out on a tandem
ride in Tippecanoe county this past summer. I had not seen
anything like that around here before in many tens of
thousands miles ridden. Before we were close enough to see
what was being grown, I was thinking, "What in the world is
that smell?" Very familiar, but I couldn't place it. Weird.

An oil refinery plus a bit of thyme spice?

You can do the same thing with the strawberry fields in
Watsonville, Ca. It's like riding through a jar of jam. I
get the same jam-jar experience riding through blackberry
fields here in Oregon.

There are some fragrant crops out there.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/16...g?v=1533238954

Hood River Valley is like a smell-a-thon with the lavender
and fruit trees. Take the train!
https://www.mthoodrr.com/train-rides...ossom-special/

One thing I miss about California is the smell of bay trees
and eucalyptus. Fir and ferns don't have much of a smell.
The only thing I remember about riding through vast acres of
corn in Kansas were the bird-sized grasshopper/locust. No
memorable smell, but maybe on a warm day is smells like
corn.

Yeah, Indiana is much like Kansas in terms of crop variety.
You do get a little sweetish scent when the corn is
pollinating. Other than that, pretty unremarkable.

Now that you mention it ... before Midwestern corn farming
became a chemical industry, were the harvested fields burnt as
they liked to do in Europe?

Not that I've ever seen, going back as far as I've been alive
(born 1955).

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA