Chain Line

On 2017-06-19 10:11, wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 8:53:55 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

But get well first. From what I heard cataract surgery needs a lot
of rest afterwards.

Cataract surgery is the most common form of surgery in the world.
Recovery in the normal case is about two weeks and perhaps another
month to get used to the major change in vision.


In the world of cyclists that is long :-)

Whenever I had a lot of consulting work or whatever and couldn't squeeze
in a long ride during a whole week I get antsy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection the chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove. It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of the crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600 gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for square taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the chain line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to keep the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it and all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices. Here you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If I can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in _electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last longest. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette

Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but it's not the cassette.

On 2017-06-19 13:22, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection the chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove. It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of the crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600 gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for square taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the chain line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to keep the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it and all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices. Here you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If I can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in _electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last longest. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette


Scroll to the right in your like and you see ... this:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-7-speed-dh-cassette/rp-prod147705?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_ca mpaign=Chain+Reaction-US-PLA-PLA-All-All-SE-Shopping-QLB+Test+Generic&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid |sRqnEmzWw_dc|pcrid|101566717248|pkw||pmt||prd|538 599US


https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette

Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but it's not the cassette.


It is a cassette. Also says so in the ad.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:22:47 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection the chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove. It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of the crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600 gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for square taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the chain line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to keep the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it and all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices. Here you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If I can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in _electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last longest. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette

Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but it's not the cassette.

https://www.ebay.com/i/322536813455?chn=ps&dispItem=1

$149 but they're nice enough to include shipping. Maybe you're willing to buy **** on a shingle but some people aren't.

On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:41:52 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 13:22, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection the chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove. It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of the crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600 gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for square taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the chain line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to keep the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it and all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices. Here you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If I can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in _electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last longest.. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette


Scroll to the right in your like and you see ... this:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-7-speed-dh-cassette/rp-prod147705?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_ca mpaign=Chain+Reaction-US-PLA-PLA-All-All-SE-Shopping-QLB+Test+Generic&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid |sRqnEmzWw_dc|pcrid|101566717248|pkw||pmt||prd|538 599US


https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette

Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but it's not the cassette.


It is a cassette. Also says so in the ad.

It is a HOPE cassette. Says so in the ad. The biggest word in the ad is HOPE

On 2017-06-19 14:13, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:41:52 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 13:22, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection the chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove. It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of the crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600 gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for square taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the chain line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to keep the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it and all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices. Here you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If I can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in _electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last longest. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette


Scroll to the right in your like and you see ... this:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-7-speed-dh-cassette/rp-prod147705?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_ca mpaign=Chain+Reaction-US-PLA-PLA-All-All-SE-Shopping-QLB+Test+Generic&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid |sRqnEmzWw_dc|pcrid|101566717248|pkw||pmt||prd|538 599US


https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette

Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but it's not the cassette.


It is a cassette. Also says so in the ad.

It is a HOPE cassette. Says so in the ad. The biggest word in the ad is HOPE


Sure. Yet it's still a cassette :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/19/2017 5:22 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 14:13, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:41:52 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 13:22, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old
square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the
original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original
square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection the
chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit some
of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove.
It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut
things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of the
crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back
again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600
gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner
edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge
BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for square
taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from
where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square
tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the chain
line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient
clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my
bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square
tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy
back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a
perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put
on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without
the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to keep
the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks
that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it and
all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices. Here
you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If I
can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone
wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in
_electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually
retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some
tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last
longest. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette



Scroll to the right in your like and you see ... this:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-7-speed-dh-cassette/rp-prod147705?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_ca mpaign=Chain+Reaction-US-PLA-PLA-All-All-SE-Shopping-QLB+Test+Generic&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid |sRqnEmzWw_dc|pcrid|101566717248|pkw||pmt||prd|538 599US



https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette


Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but
it's not the cassette.


It is a cassette. Also says so in the ad.

It is a HOPE cassette. Says so in the ad. The biggest word in the ad
is HOPE


Sure. Yet it's still a cassette :-)

"Machined from a solid billet of stainless steel" makes it a boutique
item. Sure, you can buy it if you want. It's like buying an artisanal
bicycle chain with each pin hand fitted to custom filed side plates.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-06-19 20:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 5:22 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 14:13, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:41:52 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 13:22, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 5:19:56 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:09:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/16/2017 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-15 18:11, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:28:39 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2017-06-14 19:08, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 08:33, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-14 15:28, James wrote:
On 15/06/17 06:31, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 19:09, John B. wrote:

In a recent discussion I suggested changing from the old
square
tapered BB to a modern Shimano outboard bearing bracket. The
argument
was that this would destroy the perfect chain line of the
original
three piece BB.

Now, I have changed back and forth between the original
square
tapered
axle to the outboard bearing BB and to my recollection
the chain
line
didn't seem to change noticeably.

Over the weekend we took a trip "up country" to visit
some of my
wife's relatives and as we used my wife's car she drove.
It is
about
250 Km, one way, so I had a lot of time to think abut
things and
one
of the things I thought about was how could I change bottom
brackets
with no appreciable difference in chain line.

This morning I turned one of my bikes bottom up and did some
measuring
and it turns out that with the old fashioned three piece BB
there is
slightly over 10mm clearance between the inner edge of
the crank
arm
and the outer edge of the BB. The outboard bearing "flanges"
measured
12mm in thickness and the old sty;e BB flange is `1mm..

Thus the changing from the old style to the more modern BB
results in
very little, if any, difference in chain line. Certainly
less
then the
difference between two cogs on the cassette.

Granted that bicycles are all different but the above does
explain why
I, after switching from one type to the other, and back
again, have
seen no noticeable difference in chain line.


The discussion you were referring to was about Shimano 600
gear
which is
what I have on my road bike. The clearance from the inner
edge of
the
drive side crank to the outer surface of the BB is 3mm. Now
assume your
12mm measurement minus the 1mm that the regular cartridge
BB has.
That's
already 11mm of chain line offset. A lot. You could reduce
the
clearance
to 2mm but that much wiggle room you really need for
square taper
and
that would still leave you with a chain line 10mm off from
where it
was.


On my previous frame, I migrated from Campagnolo square
tapered BB &
cranks to Campagnolo outboard bearing BB assy, and the
chain line
didn't
shift 10mm.


Did you buy new cranks? If not, was there sufficient
clearance to make
up for the added millimeter of the outboard bearing? On my
bike there
isn't.


Is there an outboard BB bearing assembly that uses a square
tapered
axle?

I don't know. I bought a Campag Ultra Torque crank & BB assy
back in
2007-8. I've replaced the bearings once, about 5 years ago. No
bearing
slop noticeable yet.


Sure, if you buy matching cranks it's all fine. However, in the
referenced thread it was not the objective to throw away a
perfectly
good set of cranks just because of a new BB.

Five years is good but that depends on how many miles you put
on, the
amount of uphill sections and whether you usually spin or mash.


Why do you think you are special?


See above. There simply is no room for another 11mm without
the crank
moving at least 10mm outward. Naturally, the goal was to
keep the
Shimano 600 cranks. Installing a UN55 internal cartridge
bearing
allowed
me to do that and so that is what I did.


So you think you're special because you want to keep cranks
that aren't
compatible.


I am not special but among the people who wish not to belong to a
throw-away society.


Good luck.


Not needed. I received the new BB a while ago, installed it
and all is
well. Cost me all of $20.

I don't understand this continual complaining about prices.
Here you
brag that you only spent $20 and in another post you said, "If
I can
find decently priced cassette", and yet when I suggest that you go
into the bike carrier business as you claimed that everyone
wanted a
rack like you made you said about you already had plenty of money.


No. Repeating it for the umpteenth time, my business is in
_electronics_
and in particular the design of those. Yes, I am gradually
retiring but
never 100% because then the sky falls for me, I need some
tech-sizzle.

I have no problem spending $50 on a cassette. I do have a problem
spending $150 on a cassette because I consider that wasteful and
unnecessary. Just like I would not spend $150 on a tire for my car
(which lasts me north of 70k miles).

You'll never guess which chain lube makes your cassettes last
longest. :-)

One can only gaze in awe at a country where one pays $150 for a
cassette.

I can't remember how much I paid for the last cassette I bought but I
would estimate that I paid, perhaps, $50 for it. I'm basing this on
the fact that while I might pay something like 1.500 baht for
something and not remember it but certainly if I paid 5,250 baht for
anything I would.

But, on the other hand, I make "custom" cassettes for my road
bikes. A
local bike shop sells me used cassettes that they have changed out
for
abut a dollar (your money) each and I break them down and use the
least worn cogs.

But honestly, I can't even remember when I bought a new cassette, but
it was certainly more then two years ago.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

Dude cassettes are 20 bucks.
https://www.google.com/search?q=nash...speed+cassette



Scroll to the right in your like and you see ... this:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-7-speed-dh-cassette/rp-prod147705?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_ca mpaign=Chain+Reaction-US-PLA-PLA-All-All-SE-Shopping-QLB+Test+Generic&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid |sRqnEmzWw_dc|pcrid|101566717248|pkw||pmt||prd|538 599US



https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&s...speed+cassette


Not sure what you're paying for if you spend more than 30 or 40 but
it's not the cassette.


It is a cassette. Also says so in the ad.

It is a HOPE cassette. Says so in the ad. The biggest word in the
ad is HOPE


Sure. Yet it's still a cassette :-)

"Machined from a solid billet of stainless steel" makes it a boutique
item. Sure, you can buy it if you want. It's like buying an artisanal
bicycle chain with each pin hand fitted to custom filed side plates.


You need to get out more. There are plenty of cassette well above the
$150 I mentioned. You can call them boutique parts and so would I. That
does not change the fact that people are buying them. Like this:

http://www.jensonusa.com/Cassettes-C...-10SP-Cassette

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/20/2017 4:08 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 20:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:

"Machined from a solid billet of stainless steel" makes it a boutique
item. Sure, you can buy it if you want. It's like buying an artisanal
bicycle chain with each pin hand fitted to custom filed side plates.


You need to get out more. There are plenty of cassette well above the
$150 I mentioned. You can call them boutique parts and so would I.

Then we agree!

That does not change the fact that people are buying them. Like this:

http://www.jensonusa.com/Cassettes-C...-10SP-Cassette

Yep. There's no upper limit to the prices some people will pay.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-06-20 14:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 4:08 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 20:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:

"Machined from a solid billet of stainless steel" makes it a boutique
item. Sure, you can buy it if you want. It's like buying an artisanal
bicycle chain with each pin hand fitted to custom filed side plates.


You need to get out more. There are plenty of cassette well above the
$150 I mentioned. You can call them boutique parts and so would I.

Then we agree!

That does not change the fact that people are buying them. Like this:

http://www.jensonusa.com/Cassettes-C...-10SP-Cassette

Yep. There's no upper limit to the prices some people will pay.


That's essentially all I said. I know people who have absolutely no
problem [plunking down $150+ for a cassette or $200+ for a hub.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/