Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?

Andre Jute wrote:

Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?

/Slow/ does not necessarily equal /bad/. Gearing.

Let's put it this way:

When I was a runner, I actually passed someone once. Grandmother was kind
enough to move her walker aside to allow me room to get by.

On my bike, my cyclometer often displays a negative reading on ascents.
Still, I routinely pass recumbent riders on steep and gradual (up)hills
alike.

Bill "prefers /bicycles/ to /contraptions/" S.

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 02:19:34 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?

Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
the pros and cons of recumbents.

I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
least one hill.

Andre Jute
An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device

They are as good as the rider who is on the bike. If you are
overweight and out of shape it doesn't matter what you ride.

On the flip side they are a blast when going downhill. Especially
with a fairing. Just my $0.02

wrote:

Example 2: Earlier this year I was riding home, on a slight incline,
when a bent rider pulled out from a side street about ½ mile to 1 mile
ahead of me going the same direction. I was curious to see the bike,
so I poured a little mustard on it and got myself moving. The hill
got a bit steeper going over an overpass, and he was moving very, very
slowly. I don’t think he even knew I was behind him closing the gap.
No visible mirror, and he certainly didn’t turn around. I had closed
the gap considerably when he got to the top of the overpass, and he
may as well have grown a motor on that decline. I was in my top gear,
in the drops, spinning my legs and he was pulling away from me like I
was out of gas. I ran into a friend walking her dog about a mile down
the road, and asked if she’d seen him. She said he “flew by”, and he
was far enough ahead of me she was surprised I knew he was on the road
at all.

I have ridden with bents many times on long rides (brevets). I recall
not being that impressed with their descending speed. It may be that my
weight/drag is just pretty good, but I don't think unfaired bents are
all that much better than uprights. Maybe you *were* out of gas after
chasing him down.

On Nov 25, 5:04*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
wrote:
Example 2: *Earlier this year I was riding home, on a slight incline,
when a bent rider pulled out from a side street about ½ mile to 1 mile
ahead of me going the same direction. *I was curious to see the bike,
so I poured a little mustard on it and got myself moving. *The hill
got a bit steeper going over an overpass, and he was moving very, very
slowly. *I don’t think he even knew I was behind him closing the gap.
No visible mirror, and he certainly didn’t turn around. *I had closed
the gap considerably when he got to the top of the overpass, and he
may as well have grown a motor on that decline. *I was in my top gear,
in the drops, spinning my legs and he was pulling away from me like I
was out of gas. *I ran into a friend walking her dog about a mile down
the road, and asked if she’d seen him. *She said he “flew by”, and he
was far enough ahead of me she was surprised I knew he was on the road
at all.

I have ridden with bents many times on long rides (brevets). I recall
not being that impressed with their descending speed. It may be that my
weight/drag is just pretty good, but I don't think unfaired bents are
all that much better than uprights. Maybe you *were* out of gas after
chasing him down.

I think this was semi-fared. It wasn't a full-on shell like you see
on some, but I saw what I think was some type of fairing on the
front. Anyway, out of gas or not, I was spinning like crazy legs on
my hardest gear. Not to say that I was or wasn't out of gas, but that
was as fast as I was going to get going with the gearing on that
bike. Not sure offhand what that gearing is, but it's fast enough for
me the vast majority of the time.

Bernhard Agthe wrote:
Hi,

wrote:
[...]

In general I would agree - the little experience I have with 'bents is a
one-hour-test ride on a trike. My impression going up a hill was "I want
a lower gear" - going up is slow, but no problem at all (provided you
have a low enough gear).

So, I'd say, they are slow on uphill, but (especially on trikes) this is
no problem ;-)

With my upright, I do have problems while going uphill with a load - my
lowest gear is still much too high so I have to sprint a bit and then
wait for regeneration, sprint.... 'Bents cannot be worse ;-) With a
trike, get a *low* gear and enjoy ;-)

Ciao...

Indeed, a trike should have a very low "bailout" gear.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

Peter Cole wrote:
wrote:

Example 2: Earlier this year I was riding home, on a slight incline,
when a bent rider pulled out from a side street about ½ mile to 1 mile
ahead of me going the same direction. I was curious to see the bike,
so I poured a little mustard on it and got myself moving. The hill
got a bit steeper going over an overpass, and he was moving very, very
slowly. I don’t think he even knew I was behind him closing the gap.
No visible mirror, and he certainly didn’t turn around. I had closed
the gap considerably when he got to the top of the overpass, and he
may as well have grown a motor on that decline. I was in my top gear,
in the drops, spinning my legs and he was pulling away from me like I
was out of gas. I ran into a friend walking her dog about a mile down
the road, and asked if she’d seen him. She said he “flew by”, and he
was far enough ahead of me she was surprised I knew he was on the road
at all.

I have ridden with bents many times on long rides (brevets). I recall
not being that impressed with their descending speed. It may be that my
weight/drag is just pretty good, but I don't think unfaired bents are
all that much better than uprights. Maybe you *were* out of gas after
chasing him down.

I easily out coast adult upright tandem teams on my lowracer.

Note that the performance variation between recumbents of differing
designs is great. Some have MORE aerodynamic drag than an upright rider
on the hoods: http://www.mrmartinweb.com/images/bike/bikee.jpg, while
some have less than an Obree position bike:
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/nocom/nocom2006.jpg.

Here is an early 1980's obsolete design that led to many of the opinions
of recumbents not being able to climb, having poor handling and poor
braking: https://home.pacbell.net/recumbnt/hypercycle.jpg. However,
that is like judging the usefulness of computers by a Trash 80 Model 1.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

aka Chris Crawford wrote:
An old post of mine on BentRiderOnline. Might be of some help:

Regards,
Chris


The debate continues - all of it anecdotal. I've yet to see any posted
race times uphill of bents vs. DFs head to head. i wouldn't say bents
can't climb but I would say that they can't climb as fast. My own
personal test: I ride bents, road bikes, and MTBs and rotate around
quite a bit. Living on the Colorado Front Range, I've done some
massive climbing on Bents including the Mt. Evans Hill Climb Race
(highest paved road in CONUS - 7,000 to 14,000 feet - all up). General
observation - I'm much faster on a DF (and it's not the weight). Last
Spring I decided to do a little test. For 3 weeks I alternately rode
up Lookout Mtn (4 miles all 6-9% grade up) on a recumbent and on my
road bike. I then timed myself all out on each bike. Results: Road
bike 24:45, Recumbent 31:10. This seems pretty consistent with most
other rides I've done. Just one data point but that's been my
experience.

What was your climbing technique? Using an upright style is NOT optimum.
The recumbent rider needs to spin fast (ca. 100-120 rpm) AND pull on the
backstroke (foot retention is mandatory).

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

"Just Me" wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 02:19:34 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?

Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
the pros and cons of recumbents.

I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
least one hill.

Andre Jute
An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device

They are as good as the rider who is on the bike. If you are
overweight and out of shape it doesn't matter what you ride.

On the flip side they are a blast when going downhill. Especially
with a fairing. Just my $0.02

On the other hand, in flat to rolling terrain, especially into a
headwind, a rider on a lowracer can keep up with much stronger upright
riders.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

On Nov 25, 8:49 am, " wrote:
On Nov 25, 11:08 am, Dan O wrote:



On Nov 25, 5:55 am, " wrote:

On Nov 25, 5:19 am, Andre Jute wrote:

Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?

Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
the pros and cons of recumbents.



This couldn't be any less factual or much more anecdotal, but since my
experience with 'bents has been so limited, it's what I've got.

Example 1: Growing up, I lived near a famous retired NHL player and
coach. He had a ‘bent. A buddy of mine did his landscaping and he
let us borrow his canoe and launch from his back yard, so I talked to
him on occasion. He told me how much he loved the bike and how fast
it was. He also told me that he was careful to plan routes to avoid
hills, as going uphill with it was a bear.

Sorry, I just have to ask: How does the NHL factor into any of this?
The canoe? Backyard?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn, that's my second interaction with the cops in under 24 hours.
Last night it was the environmental cops, now it's the usenet patrol.


I already said "sorry" in the first place :-)

It's a basis to attest for the guys physical condition. Most star NHL
players are in pretty good shape, and tend to stay that way. I think
a recently retired NHL star player & coach saying it's a bear to ride
uphill carries a bit more weight than some random overweight desk-
jockey saying it's difficult. A guy who made his entire living in the
NHL tells me something is physically demanding, it's going to carry a
bit more weight with me than your average joe at the bar telling me
the same.


Hmm... okay, I can see that (sort of). But my mental image of "famous
retired NHL player and coach" is not necessarily one of peak fitness.
(Note that "star player" and "recently retired" were not part of your
excruciatingly detailed original account.) I might, in fact,
reasonably imagine that he was past prime athleticism even before
retiring as a player and beginning a coaching career, then continued
in that much less physically demanding role for who knows how long,
before finally retiring altogether who knows how long ago. (And he
apparently has somebody else doing his yardwork.) I imagine a lot
overweight desk-jockies used to be athletes. (Some of them might even
own canoes.)

(Climbing hills can be physically demanding for anybody on any bike,
BTW. I did sort of get the original inference, though, from "... it
was a bear", that he found climbing on his 'bent *relatively*
difficult. Of course, I would derive the same inference from the same
statement by "average joe".)

The canoe/backyard was chatter, a basic intro to how I knew and spoke
with this guy. It was also 1 entire sentence. Do you really have
nothing better to do than question if 1 sentence was necessary to
convey a point? Weak.

Here was your point:

"I knew a guy who used to be a famous hockey player. He had a 'bent,
and said going uphill with it was a bear."

(How weak is that?)

.... and...

"Once, while riding uphill with some mustard, I was catching up to a
'bent, but he went much faster down the hill and got away."

(That's not pretty weak?)

Again, though - sorry - no offense - please carry on. (As you can see
from my reply to Andre, I was not having a very tolerant morning :-)

Hi,

wrote:
It's a basis to attest for the guys physical condition. Most star NHL
players are in pretty good shape, and tend to stay that way. I think
a recently retired NHL star player & coach saying it's a bear to ride
uphill carries a bit more weight than some random overweight desk-
[...]

Well, but then he's been working a totally different set of muscles all
his active training time. Even putting Armstrong on a 'bent for the
first time will make him find 'bents hard to ride... Even that are
different muscles... As I said, my very first impression was "relax and
spin it" - and I do out-spin almost all of my friends, anyway. Don't
worry, it's just a matter of getting used to - and that cannot be done
by any other than you alone ;-)

Ciao..