Still waiting ...

wrote:
B. Lafferty wrote:

Now give us a complete analysis relating the above and his 500 watt plus
accelerations. And please relate that to his basic physiology. I have a
friend in your field who is quite anxious to see your analysis. And when
you analyze Hauticam, don't forget his plus 500 watt accelerations and the
times that they lasted. You might also want to attempt to quantify the
effect of muscle fatigue given that these climbs came at the end of stages
with not insignificant prior climbs.

BTW, reading between the lines here I think it is evident that you
simply don't have a clue as to elite elite cyclists really are, doped
or not.




Dumbass -


Laff@me has it down.

If he likes them, they're clean.

If he doesn't like them, they're doping.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

He has it down even better than that. He can turn the original
question (asking for his reasoning/evidence regarding his assertions
about Haven) into a debate over Lance's doping.

He sounds like a decent lawyer after all. Even one Stephen Colbert
would love (Facts? Don't need 'em! My gut tells me what's right!)


Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
wrote:
B. Lafferty wrote:

Now give us a complete analysis relating the above and his 500 watt plus
accelerations. And please relate that to his basic physiology. I have a
friend in your field who is quite anxious to see your analysis. And when
you analyze Hauticam, don't forget his plus 500 watt accelerations and the
times that they lasted. You might also want to attempt to quantify the
effect of muscle fatigue given that these climbs came at the end of stages
with not insignificant prior climbs.

BTW, reading between the lines here I think it is evident that you
simply don't have a clue as to elite elite cyclists really are, doped
or not.




Dumbass -


Laff@me has it down.

If he likes them, they're clean.

If he doesn't like them, they're doping.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Stu Fleming wrote:
wrote:

4) to get to 6.7 W/kg, he had increase his power to 500 W, and reduce
his body mass by 5.5 kg.

I'm reminded of the cartoon with the scientists standing in front of a
complex chart, with one step marked "At this point, a miracle occurs"
and for one to say "I think you need a bit more detail here."

6% increase in absolute sustained power.
7% drop in body mass.
6 months.

Forget the papers on doping, all someone needs to do is write a paper on
this training method.

Unfortunately, Chris Carmichael focus-grouped the "Weigh Your Oatmeal
Performance Training Plan" and it was a dismal failure, especially with
the Masters Fatties.

If Armstrong weighed 80 kg in January, he was one fat ****
(for a Tour contender) - he's only 5'10", 177cm.
Okay, there's probably good reason not to starve yourself over
Christmas, for morale if nothing else. But with that extra padding
and a high training load, I can easily believe that he could lose
5 kg from January to July without any crash diets. The problem
Jan always seemed to have was that he was trying to increase
the training load and take the weight off from April to July.

Is 6% change in power from January to July really outrageous?
I keep hearing about all this "peaking" mumbo-jumbo ...
There are obvious shortcuts, but they are unlikely to have let
Coyle see anything that would make it obvious they were taking
shortcuts.

wrote in message
ups.com...
B. Lafferty wrote:

Now give us a complete analysis relating the above and his 500 watt plus
accelerations. And please relate that to his basic physiology. I have a
friend in your field who is quite anxious to see your analysis. And when
you analyze Hauticam, don't forget his plus 500 watt accelerations and
the
times that they lasted. You might also want to attempt to quantify the
effect of muscle fatigue given that these climbs came at the end of
stages
with not insignificant prior climbs.

BTW, reading between the lines here I think it is evident that you
simply don't have a clue as to elite elite cyclists really are, doped
or not. Did you know, for example, that Peter Keen estimated that
Boardman maintained a **steady-state** VO2 of 81 mL/min/kg during his
56+ km hour record, and that Obree's **steady-state* VO2 was only
slightly lower at 77 mL/min/kg. (And here I thought I was something
back when I could maintain a steady-state VO2 of ~70 mL/min/kg for an
hour.)

Andy Coggan

Isn't there a more direct correlation between VO2 and ability to put out
watts when climbing than other types of riding? From the dvd of his
breaking Merckx's traditional hour in Manchester, he was wasted, an absolute
basket case. He didn't look at all like Armstrong, Ullrich, Basso, Pantani
etc. at the end of Tour/Giro stages when they looked fresh and less than
stressed.




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Cyclonaught wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
B. Lafferty wrote:

Now give us a complete analysis relating the above and his 500 watt plus
accelerations. And please relate that to his basic physiology. I have a
friend in your field who is quite anxious to see your analysis. And when
you analyze Hauticam, don't forget his plus 500 watt accelerations and
the
times that they lasted. You might also want to attempt to quantify the
effect of muscle fatigue given that these climbs came at the end of
stages
with not insignificant prior climbs.

BTW, reading between the lines here I think it is evident that you
simply don't have a clue as to elite elite cyclists really are, doped
or not. Did you know, for example, that Peter Keen estimated that
Boardman maintained a **steady-state** VO2 of 81 mL/min/kg during his
56+ km hour record, and that Obree's **steady-state* VO2 was only
slightly lower at 77 mL/min/kg. (And here I thought I was something
back when I could maintain a steady-state VO2 of ~70 mL/min/kg for an
hour.)

Andy Coggan

Isn't there a more direct correlation between VO2 and ability to put out
watts when climbing than other types of riding? From the dvd of his
breaking Merckx's traditional hour in Manchester, he was wasted, an absolute
basket case. He didn't look at all like Armstrong, Ullrich, Basso, Pantani
etc. at the end of Tour/Giro stages when they looked fresh and less than
stressed.

Considering how deep Boardman had must have had to dig in the last few
laps to come from behind and take Merckx's record, I'm not surprised
that he looked "wasted". In any case, however, I was referring to his
prior effort, done when he was performing at a significantly higher
level.

Andy Coggan

wrote in message
ups.com...
Cyclonaught wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
B. Lafferty wrote:

Now give us a complete analysis relating the above and his 500 watt
plus
accelerations. And please relate that to his basic physiology. I have
a
friend in your field who is quite anxious to see your analysis. And
when
you analyze Hauticam, don't forget his plus 500 watt accelerations and
the
times that they lasted. You might also want to attempt to quantify
the
effect of muscle fatigue given that these climbs came at the end of
stages
with not insignificant prior climbs.

BTW, reading between the lines here I think it is evident that you
simply don't have a clue as to elite elite cyclists really are, doped
or not. Did you know, for example, that Peter Keen estimated that
Boardman maintained a **steady-state** VO2 of 81 mL/min/kg during his
56+ km hour record, and that Obree's **steady-state* VO2 was only
slightly lower at 77 mL/min/kg. (And here I thought I was something
back when I could maintain a steady-state VO2 of ~70 mL/min/kg for an
hour.)

Andy Coggan

Isn't there a more direct correlation between VO2 and ability to put out
watts when climbing than other types of riding? From the dvd of his
breaking Merckx's traditional hour in Manchester, he was wasted, an
absolute
basket case. He didn't look at all like Armstrong, Ullrich, Basso,
Pantani
etc. at the end of Tour/Giro stages when they looked fresh and less than
stressed.

Considering how deep Boardman had must have had to dig in the last few
laps to come from behind and take Merckx's record, I'm not surprised
that he looked "wasted". In any case, however, I was referring to his
prior effort, done when he was performing at a significantly higher
level.

Andy Coggan

OK. But still, the better correlation between VO2 and power is to be found
in climbing as opposed to time trials. True? I've seen footage of all of
Boardman's hour records and he looked much, more spent than any of the
riders I've seen winning and placing high in uphill stages in the Tour in
recent years. I should mention that I've been watching the Tour each year
in the Pyrenees since 1988.



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