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  #121  
Old May 25th 19, 04:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
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On Sat, 25 May 2019 02:26:13 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 15:22:12 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 04:40:50 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 10:46:42 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2019 18:14:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Geez. Who can't sharpen a drill bit??

Apparently someone that posts here as I remember the implication and
sharp drills were only found in machine shops :-)

Yep, YMMV, but I've always found it cheaper to just buy a new drill set
or collection of drills than fuzing around trying to sharpen them.

OTOH, I don't earn my living drilling holes and it rapidly became
obvious that as far as "drill sharpening devices" went one
size/type/style didn't fit all and apart from a pileof files, that's
enough.

I'll go as far as touching up a chain saw every cut on dry redgum or
yellow box(realraiway sleepers), but life is too short to touch up a
drill for every hole.


Different strokes for different folks, I guess. But sharpening drills is
just two passes across the grinding wheel and a chain saw has a
multitude of teeth :-)


If you have a shop, then I guess you're bound to have a grinding wheel or
three, but no shop here. Nor do i have a vice standing by with a groove
to hold drills so I can rub a file over them. Then there is the fact
that I just can't file a flat surface for the life of me.


Nor can I cook worth a damn. My secret is "I don't cook" :-)

By the way, if you can file your drill bits with a common file then
you are buying the wrong kind of drills :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

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  #122  
Old May 25th 19, 04:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
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On Fri, 24 May 2019 22:52:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/24/2019 8:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 11:16:37 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 15:18:59 +0700, John B.
wrote:

One of the A.F. machine shops I was assigned to had no drill
sharpening "utensils" what so ever as the Shop Chief, a grizzled old
fellow that did his apprenticeship at Morse Twist Drill, I believe,
said that sharpening a drill was such a basic skill that everybody
must know how to do it. :-)

Reminds me of the time I bought a booklet called something like "Tools
and their Uses". Since it was intended for Navy inductees who didn't
know anything, I figured it would tell me how to sharpen a pocket
knife.

All it said about pocket knives was that they should be kept sharp.


Good Lord! And you a married woman? and you don't know how to sharpen
a knife?

You just say, "Honey, this knife is sooo dull that I can't cut this
steak meat... would you like hamburger for supper?


:-)


And, I'm speaking from experience :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #123  
Old May 25th 19, 05:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,638
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On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:24:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Good Lord! And you a married woman? and you don't know how to sharpen
a knife?

You just say, "Honey, this knife is sooo dull that I can't cut this
steak meat... would you like hamburger for supper?


That was half a century ago.

And my kitchen-knife sharpening technique *still* doesn't work on
pocket knives.

I can't remember the last time I cut raw meat. Steaks come ready to
slap into a skillet. I do chop lots of raw vegetables; I have a large
knife that isn't good for anything else.

I'm filling out the paperwork for an annual Medicare "health risk
assessment"; I feel a bit odd checking "I don't need help preparing
meals" -- I get *lots* of help.

Mom started a fried-chicken meal by sending Dad out to the henhouse
with an axe. When I want fried chicken, I go to Penguin Point or buy
a Hungry Man dinner.

Hungry Man dinners are really good for an old couple. Most pre-cooked
dinners are too much for one and not enough for two. The meat in a
Hungry Man is always in two equal pieces, so I think they know that
they are packaging dinner for two.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


  #124  
Old May 25th 19, 06:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
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On Sat, 25 May 2019 00:39:19 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:24:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Good Lord! And you a married woman? and you don't know how to sharpen
a knife?

You just say, "Honey, this knife is sooo dull that I can't cut this
steak meat... would you like hamburger for supper?


That was half a century ago.

And my kitchen-knife sharpening technique *still* doesn't work on
pocket knives.

I can't remember the last time I cut raw meat. Steaks come ready to
slap into a skillet. I do chop lots of raw vegetables; I have a large
knife that isn't good for anything else.

I'm filling out the paperwork for an annual Medicare "health risk
assessment"; I feel a bit odd checking "I don't need help preparing
meals" -- I get *lots* of help.

Mom started a fried-chicken meal by sending Dad out to the henhouse
with an axe. When I want fried chicken, I go to Penguin Point or buy
a Hungry Man dinner.


So did my mother send me out to the hen house with an axe, but her
mother just stepped out into the back yard and scooped up a hen and by
the time she got back in the house the chicken was dead (of a broken
neck)

Hungry Man dinners are really good for an old couple. Most pre-cooked
dinners are too much for one and not enough for two. The meat in a
Hungry Man is always in two equal pieces, so I think they know that
they are packaging dinner for two.


We don't seem to have all that pre-cooked stuff here and my wife of 50
years still cooks my meals :-) In fact during the periods when we have
had a servant the most the servant was allowed to do in the kitchen
was wash the dishes :-)

But of course with folks our age, in this country, the old fashioned
scheme of the husband supporting the wife (in the manner she has
become accustomed to) and the wife managing the household is still
common.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #125  
Old May 25th 19, 01:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
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On 5/24/2019 4:16 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 02:19:37 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/24/2019 1:05 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Further to Jobst's comments. I'm afraid I know many people who see no
problems what so ever in drilling holes in frames - literally every
custom frame builder I have ever been in contact with will put as many
bottle cages on your new bike as you ask for. And every cage requires
two holes to mount.


Hopefully you realize the difference between a custom frame builder
drilling a frame for cage mounts and the owner of a Huffy doing the same.


Well, tell us, oh great pundit. Do the frame builders, who often know
very little about the metals that they work with, buy special tubes to
allow them to drill holes in them? Does Columbus, for example,
manufacturer special frame tubes for those who wish to mount bottle
cages?


I'm pretty certain that you understand that a frame builder adds things
like cage mounts to tubes prior to assembling the frame, whether
welding, brazing, or gluing.

I'm also pretty certain that you know that a frame builder would almost
certainly own jig that they would be using in order to drill properly
spaced, accurate holes.
  #126  
Old May 25th 19, 01:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Bottle holder

On 5/24/2019 4:18 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 02:24:00 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/24/2019 1:28 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Back in the day, we were taught to deburr everything we did and most
machinists kept a flat, single cut, file and a triangular scrapper in
the top of his box and before you took the piece out of the machine
you hit every shoulder with the file and the edges of every hole with
the scrapper.


Well even without going to machinists school, deburring edges and holes
is a pretty obvious thing that most people know to do.


I see... and you think that "most people" have a flat file and a
triangular scrapper right there in their tool box?


A flat file, yes. A triangular scrapper, no. But I've managed to deburr
holes for many decades without one. I suppose I could buy a triangular
scrapper, but a countersink deburring bit works fine. For small holes
there are Dremel accessories with conical tips that can be used.

But thank you for making my point. Most people probably don't have the
tools to do the job properly. Since I've been building prototypes in
steel and aluminum chassis since I was about 12 years old, I have
accumulated the tools needed. I still have my vintage Lafayette chassis
punch kit
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/1211/10/lafayette-antique-radio-chassis-punch_1_b0bbb287cdd38f4742b8eb3a34687f4b.jpg
  #127  
Old May 25th 19, 01:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Bottle holder

On 5/24/2019 7:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 08:08:37 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I just had a look at Amazon and a Kennedy "machining's tool box is
almost $600 :-(


I paid $35 for my first one in about 1970. I currently have 3 of
them, including one copy my father made from mahogany. They can be
had used on eBay for $100 to $150 including shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=kennedy+520+machinist+tool+box
or new from various sources for $300 to $400:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=shop&q=kennedy+machinist+tool+box+520

I'll reply to accusations of ineptitude for failing to deburr the hose
clamp later. Verrry bizzeee for a few daze.


Or at least put some heat shrink tubing over the end.

  #128  
Old May 25th 19, 02:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
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On 5/24/2019 9:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:34:19 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/24/2019 8:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 18:42:37 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/24/2019 6:18 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 02:24:00 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/24/2019 1:28 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Back in the day, we were taught to deburr everything we did and most
machinists kept a flat, single cut, file and a triangular scrapper in
the top of his box and before you took the piece out of the machine
you hit every shoulder with the file and the edges of every hole with
the scrapper.

Well even without going to machinists school, deburring edges and holes
is a pretty obvious thing that most people know to do.

I see... and you think that "most people" have a flat file and a
triangular scrapper right there in their tool box?


Among those with a Kennedy tool box, yes and yes. Love this
little Israeli deburr:

http://www.bartsupply.com/gallery/pr...haviv_tool.jpg

I just had a look at Amazon and a Kennedy "machining's tool box is
almost $600 :-( Back when I was working at the trade my whole box,
tools and apron didn't cost that much and we had to supply our own 1"
and 2" micrometers and they had to be either Starret or Brown & Sharp.

and a couple of Diamond Debs too.

That said, "most people" probably have a crappy claw hammer,
a screwdriver with flat/Phillips #2 flipover from the $1
table and a can opener. They don't know how to use the can
opener. This is based on my research of being asked to help
out with various household problems at various households.
Based on those experiences, "no" is usually the best response.

Or, "I charge $10 an hour" :-)

Or, as I remember seeing somewhere, "$10 an hour and if you tried to
fix it first than $20 an hour".


Mine was a hundred, about the same as a midprice race frame
at the time (less than a Masi, more than a Gitane). Good
value IMHO. My Starret micrometer set was a gift from a
retired machinist.


I had an antique, I guess you'd call it, wooden Kennedy box given to
me. I was always afraid to actually use it for a tool box as I was
afraid of damaging it. So it just sat in the garage looking pretty :-)


I schlepped mine in my MG between two jobs and then home for
a couple of years. Tough.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #129  
Old May 25th 19, 03:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Bottle holder

On 5/24/2019 9:39 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:24:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Good Lord! And you a married woman? and you don't know how to sharpen
a knife?

You just say, "Honey, this knife is sooo dull that I can't cut this
steak meat... would you like hamburger for supper?


That was half a century ago.


In much of the world, but apparently not everywhere.
  #130  
Old May 25th 19, 03:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Bottle holder

On 5/20/2019 9:50 AM, AK wrote:

snip

Ralph already considers me an infidel because I have a Huffy.

I can't afford those fancy pants $4000 bikes.

:-)


But you can probably afford the tools necessary to properly install a
pair of Rivnuts. You can purchase all the necessary tools for under
$100, and you already may have some of them. Some of the tools you can
jury-rig, but don't skimp on the drilling jig.

$15 Rivnut insert setting tool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N420A2D
$ 7 Rivnuts: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NGK6UBY (for aluminum frame)
$29 Drilling Jig: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222390828275
$13 Triangular Scraper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ61QD4
$ 2 Liquid metal filler https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ALDYJI
$ 2 7mm drill bit https://www.ebay.com/itm/392072184033
$30 Close quarters drill
https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-variable-speed-reversible-close-quarters-drill-60610.html
1/8" drill bit (or 3mm).

One thing to be careful about is getting all the metal filings out of
the frame after you drill the holes. When Rivnuts are installed at the
factory it's done before the frame tubes are welded, brazed, or glued
together so the metal pieces can be easily removed. But once the frame
is assembled you'll need to shake out those pieces through the seat tube
or bottom bracket or headset openings.

Or find a custom frame builder or bicycle shop that may already have all
the proper equipment, and will do it for less than the cost of all the
stuff you'll need to do the job properly yourself.

But personally, I'd use clamps. For under $15 you can buy clamps
specifically designed for this purpose.
 




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