#131
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Bottle holder
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:39:16 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/20/2019 9:50 AM, AK wrote: snip Ralph already considers me an infidel because I have a Huffy. I can't afford those fancy pants $4000 bikes. :-) But you can probably afford the tools necessary to properly install a pair of Rivnuts. You can purchase all the necessary tools for under $100, and you already may have some of them. Some of the tools you can jury-rig, but don't skimp on the drilling jig. $15 Rivnut insert setting tool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N420A2D $ 7 Rivnuts: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NGK6UBY (for aluminum frame) $29 Drilling Jig: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222390828275 $13 Triangular Scraper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ61QD4 $ 2 Liquid metal filler https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ALDYJI $ 2 7mm drill bit https://www.ebay.com/itm/392072184033 $30 Close quarters drill https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-variable-speed-reversible-close-quarters-drill-60610.html 1/8" drill bit (or 3mm). One thing to be careful about is getting all the metal filings out of the frame after you drill the holes. When Rivnuts are installed at the factory it's done before the frame tubes are welded, brazed, or glued together so the metal pieces can be easily removed. But once the frame is assembled you'll need to shake out those pieces through the seat tube or bottom bracket or headset openings. Or find a custom frame builder or bicycle shop that may already have all the proper equipment, and will do it for less than the cost of all the stuff you'll need to do the job properly yourself. But personally, I'd use clamps. For under $15 you can buy clamps specifically designed for this purpose. But two Rivnuts are a LOT less expensive than your Less than $15.00 clamps and are a lot better looking when installed. Cheers |
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#132
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Bottle holder
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:39:16 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Snipped But you can probably afford the tools necessary to properly install a pair of Rivnuts. You can purchase all the necessary tools for under $100, and you already may have some of them. Some of the tools you can jury-rig, but don't skimp on the drilling jig. $15 Rivnut insert setting tool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N420A2D $ 7 Rivnuts: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NGK6UBY (for aluminum frame) $29 Drilling Jig: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222390828275 $13 Triangular Scraper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ61QD4 $ 2 Liquid metal filler https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ALDYJI $ 2 7mm drill bit https://www.ebay.com/itm/392072184033 $30 Close quarters drill https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-variable-speed-reversible-close-quarters-drill-60610.html 1/8" drill bit (or 3mm). Snipped $15.00 Rivnut insert setting tool = not needed. You can set a Rivnut with a long bolt and a nut. $7.00 Rivnuts. You can buy a couple of them from a good bicycle shop, custom frame builder or good fasteners store. $29.00 drilling jig = not needed. Any normal electric drill can be used. $13.00 triangular scraper = not needed. $2.00 liquid metal filler = not needed $30.00 close quarters drill = not needed. $96.00 in NOT NEEDED TOOLS to install two Rivnuts? You have got to be kidding! Typical of you to VASTLY INFLATE the difficulty and cost of a simple project. Then again, if people buy from one of your recommended sites you usually get a nice kick back from that site. That's also typical of you. I bet you turn more people off from bicycling than you get to take up bicycling. Cheers |
#133
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Bottle holder
On 5/25/2019 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:39:16 AM UTC-4, sms wrote: Snipped But you can probably afford the tools necessary to properly install a pair of Rivnuts. You can purchase all the necessary tools for under $100, and you already may have some of them. Some of the tools you can jury-rig, but don't skimp on the drilling jig. $15 Rivnut insert setting tool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N420A2D $ 7 Rivnuts: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NGK6UBY (for aluminum frame) $29 Drilling Jig: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222390828275 $13 Triangular Scraper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ61QD4 $ 2 Liquid metal filler https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ALDYJI $ 2 7mm drill bit https://www.ebay.com/itm/392072184033 $30 Close quarters drill https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-variable-speed-reversible-close-quarters-drill-60610.html 1/8" drill bit (or 3mm). Snipped $15.00 Rivnut insert setting tool = not needed. You can set a Rivnut with a long bolt and a nut. $7.00 Rivnuts. You can buy a couple of them from a good bicycle shop, custom frame builder or good fasteners store. $29.00 drilling jig = not needed. Any normal electric drill can be used. $13.00 triangular scraper = not needed. $2.00 liquid metal filler = not needed $30.00 close quarters drill = not needed. $96.00 in NOT NEEDED TOOLS to install two Rivnuts? You have got to be kidding! Typical of you to VASTLY INFLATE the difficulty and cost of a simple project. Then again, if people buy from one of your recommended sites you usually get a nice kick back from that site. That's also typical of you. Scharf used to use the same argument technique regarding dynamo lights: listing the highest end, most expensive equipment as the only possible way of using a dynamo headlight, and claiming that the result was still dangerous. I bet you turn more people off from bicycling than you get to take up bicycling. Agreed. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#134
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Bottle holder
On Thu, 23 May 2019 11:10:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: IOW: Scratched by your hose clamp? Oh, if only there were a bike lane!!! Never mind the bike lane. I want a fully stocked bicycle aid station along my ride. Back to the topic: I'm a big fan of deburring sharp edges. It takes only a few seconds with a fine grinding wheel or a hand file. I'm also a big fan of deburring. As I previously mentioned, the exposed sharp corners were properly chamfered. However, since the end of the stainless strap did not project from the clamp head, I initially saw no need to deburr the sides. The sides had a rather sharp burr resulting from my rather crude method of shortening the strap. I just bent it back and forth until it broke, leaving a sharp edge. In the original configuration, it would not have been a problem. I noticed that the bottles were rather loose during the ride, so I tightened the hose clamp screw. The allowed the end of the stainless strap to project from the clamp head, which is was eventually drew blood. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#135
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Bottle holder
On Fri, 24 May 2019 10:10:50 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: Actually if one selects the proper size hose clamp there shouldn't be any "long end sticking out". and they do come in different sizes :-) The height of the hose clamp head is about 12 mm. I tried to position the clamp head under the water bottle, but the 12 mm was higher than the space between the water bottle and the down tube. So, the clamp was installed with the head on the side of the down tube. (There were two back to back water bottles attached with two clamps). The end of the stainless strap can be adjusted to hide under the projecting adjustment screw. Like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71%2BzOxf-hBL._SX425_.jpg Problem was that I couldn't break off the excess strap length with the pliers in that position. I would have needed to mark the desired length, unscrew the strap completely, break off the excess, and put it back together. However, I didn't, resulting a later readjustment causing the strap to project beyond the screw head. If I had to do it again, I probably would try one of these "clamp jackets": https://www.clampjacket.com Please note the availability of such a solution to this alleged non-problem suggests that the problem might be quite real. https://store.pyiinc.com/collections/clamp-jacket/products/clamp-jackets $6 for 25 pcs in 1/2". -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#136
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Bottle holder
On Fri, 24 May 2019 15:28:59 +0700, John B.
wrote: Back in the day, we were taught to deburr everything we did and most machinists kept a flat, single cut, file and a triangular scrapper in the top of his box and before you took the piece out of the machine you hit every shoulder with the file and the edges of every hole with the scrapper. Yep. Guilty as charged of modifying established water bottle mounting conventions thereby creating a hazard to the rider, bystanders, and the general public. For a nominal charge, I can supply a framed copy of my confession. Please note that I have a set of rotary tip deburring tools, some triangle deburring tools, and various files. I'm known to use them for deburring (when I can find them). Most of the drawings I've seen specify in the the notes: "unless otherwise specified, break all sharp edges". -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#137
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Bottle holder
On Sat, 25 May 2019 05:37:07 -0700, sms
wrote: Or at least put some heat shrink tubing over the end. I haven't tried it, but methinks that shrink tube will probably fall off unless glued in place. These looks better and would probably work better: https://store.pyiinc.com/collections/clamp-jacket/products/clamp-jackets https://www.ebay.com/itm/Clamp-Jacket-Hose-Clamp-Protectors-Black-25-Pack-Black-1-2/323294215483 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#138
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Bottle holder
On Sat, 25 May 2019 05:00:03 -0700, sms
wrote: On 5/24/2019 4:16 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 02:19:37 -0700, sms wrote: On 5/24/2019 1:05 AM, John B. wrote: snip Further to Jobst's comments. I'm afraid I know many people who see no problems what so ever in drilling holes in frames - literally every custom frame builder I have ever been in contact with will put as many bottle cages on your new bike as you ask for. And every cage requires two holes to mount. Hopefully you realize the difference between a custom frame builder drilling a frame for cage mounts and the owner of a Huffy doing the same. Well, tell us, oh great pundit. Do the frame builders, who often know very little about the metals that they work with, buy special tubes to allow them to drill holes in them? Does Columbus, for example, manufacturer special frame tubes for those who wish to mount bottle cages? I'm pretty certain that you understand that a frame builder adds things like cage mounts to tubes prior to assembling the frame, whether welding, brazing, or gluing. But that is not the point at all. You have been arguing vehemently that simply drilling holes in bike frames is Bad! And, by the way, I doubt that many frame makers actually drill any holes in frame tubes before assembling as it is hard to decide where you want the bottle cage until you get the frame pretty well assembled (so you can see where the other bits will be). I'm also pretty certain that you know that a frame builder would almost certainly own jig that they would be using in order to drill properly spaced, accurate holes. Well, I've built frames and I never had a jig, and the shop I built frames in, owned by another bloke, had no jigs to "drill properly spaced holes" simply because they aren't necessary. You keep thinking that others are as inept as you so obviously are. -- cheers, John B. |
#139
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Bottle holder
On Sat, 25 May 2019 05:25:09 -0700, sms
wrote: On 5/24/2019 4:18 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 02:24:00 -0700, sms wrote: On 5/24/2019 1:28 AM, John B. wrote: snip Back in the day, we were taught to deburr everything we did and most machinists kept a flat, single cut, file and a triangular scrapper in the top of his box and before you took the piece out of the machine you hit every shoulder with the file and the edges of every hole with the scrapper. Well even without going to machinists school, deburring edges and holes is a pretty obvious thing that most people know to do. I see... and you think that "most people" have a flat file and a triangular scrapper right there in their tool box? A flat file, yes. A triangular scrapper, no. But I've managed to deburr holes for many decades without one. I suppose I could buy a triangular scrapper, but a countersink deburring bit works fine. For small holes there are Dremel accessories with conical tips that can be used. :-) It is pretty difficult to deburr a, oh say two inch, hole in a piece you have mounted in the lathe with a countersink. Or a dremel tool for that matter. But thank you for making my point. Most people probably don't have the tools to do the job properly. Since I've been building prototypes in steel and aluminum chassis since I was about 12 years old, I have accumulated the tools needed. I still have my vintage Lafayette chassis punch kit https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/1211/10/lafayette-antique-radio-chassis-punch_1_b0bbb287cdd38f4742b8eb3a34687f4b.jpg -- cheers, John B. |
#140
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Bottle holder
On Sat, 25 May 2019 05:37:07 -0700, sms
wrote: On 5/24/2019 7:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2019 08:08:37 +0700, John B. wrote: I just had a look at Amazon and a Kennedy "machining's tool box is almost $600 :-( I paid $35 for my first one in about 1970. I currently have 3 of them, including one copy my father made from mahogany. They can be had used on eBay for $100 to $150 including shipping: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=kennedy+520+machinist+tool+box or new from various sources for $300 to $400: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=shop&q=kennedy+machinist+tool+box+520 I'll reply to accusations of ineptitude for failing to deburr the hose clamp later. Verrry bizzeee for a few daze. Or at least put some heat shrink tubing over the end. I find all this emotion about hose clamps to be a bit... well amateurish. After all the aircraft I used to work on were full of hose clamps and no one seemed to get injured. See https://tinyurl.com/y5xmgp8t https://tinyurl.com/y66v5o3u https://tinyurl.com/yxrk5wps -- cheers, John B. |
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