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why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 15th 03, 04:03 AM
Charles Beristain
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Andy:
I find the conclusions very intriguing.
In my group of riding friends... I need at least one gear lower to
accomplish the same task. There was a time I was stronger then they
were... but they all started weight training and cross training. I
stick to riding 7 days a week all year 'round. It really bugs me that
I can't climb some really technical sections (MTB) they they can,
because they higher gearing they can use gives them a slightly faster
speed/more momentum to get over the obstacles.

Any hints on how i can increase my pedaling strength on the short
technical climbs?

thanks
charlie

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  #12  
Old November 15th 03, 04:22 AM
Kurgan Gringioni
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power


"Charles Beristain" wrote in message
...
Andy:
I find the conclusions very intriguing.
In my group of riding friends... I need at least one gear lower to
accomplish the same task. There was a time I was stronger then they
were... but they all started weight training and cross training. I
stick to riding 7 days a week all year 'round. It really bugs me that
I can't climb some really technical sections (MTB) they they can,
because they higher gearing they can use gives them a slightly faster
speed/more momentum to get over the obstacles.

Any hints on how i can increase my pedaling strength on the short
technical climbs?




Read Bicycling Magazine.

They have scores of ways to get better.


  #13  
Old November 15th 03, 05:09 AM
Tom Kunich
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Now if we can only think of a reason to abbreviate it PMS.

"Ewoud Dronkert" wrote in message
l.nl...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:00:25 GMT, Andy Coggan wrote:
Conveying precise concepts requires precise use of terminology.

While I
agree with you that simple "pedal speed" might be sufficient

should it be
used within context, it might not be if, for example, the plot was

presented
out of context. Hence, "circumferential pedal velocity", i.e, the

speed and
direction that the pedal travels.



http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/s...tebuilderpictu
res/strengthvspower.gif

Bull****. It's a simple 2D plot, only the magnitude of the velocity

is
used. How can "pedal speed (m/s)" be misinterpreted?! If you want to
be more precise you could say "Pedal turning speed (m/s)" or "Pedal
speed wrt. axle (m/s)", but "Circumferential pedal velocity",

please.
I think you were just afraid of the alternative abbreviation PTS.

Btw, thanks for your efforts in writing the article.



  #14  
Old November 15th 03, 05:12 AM
Tom Kunich
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Gee, I just love that kind of talk.

"Ilan Vardi" wrote in message
m...
"Andy Coggan" wrote in message

k.net...

Conveying precise concepts requires precise use of terminology.

While I
agree with you that simple "pedal speed" might be sufficient

should it be
used within context, it might not be if, for example, the plot was

presented
out of context. Hence, "circumferential pedal velocity", i.e, the

speed and
direction that the pedal travels.


It looks like my previous critique was not quite accurate.
In order to make a graph of pedal velocity versus some other

quantity,
you would actually need to make a four dimensional plot. This is
because pedal
velocity, as opposed to pedal
speed, is not roughly constant for a given value of the other
quantity, so you
must include time to make a plot. That is, you need to make a graph
with respect
to the scalars: speed, direction, time, quantity you used in your
graph.

To highlight the complication you introduce by insisting on using
pedal velocity, note that the graph of the speed of a pedal rotating
in a circle
at constant speed consists of a single point, while the graph of its
velocity
is a 3-dimensional figure, a helix (this is what I was thinking of
previously).

Once again, I use an opportunity to differentiate myself from most
scientists
by admitting when I have made a mistake.

-ilan



  #15  
Old November 15th 03, 05:51 AM
Benjamin Weiner
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Ilan Vardi wrote:

Once again, I use an opportunity to differentiate myself from most
scientists
by admitting when I have made a mistake.


Ilan, you're not a scientist. You are a mathematician.


  #16  
Old November 15th 03, 10:34 AM
Ron Jenkins
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Strength gains are triggered by intensity, not by duration.

Ron

Voltaire wrote:


Thank you very much for the excellent technical essay. Am I correct in
concluding from your essay that my twice a week, three or four seated,
in-the-hooks, 4 minute climbs up a steep hill are the type of specificity to
which you refer? I'm doing these rather than weight-room leg exercises in
hopes of building bicycling specific strength and power.

Vol(tryingtobeabetterfattiemastersracer)taire


  #17  
Old November 15th 03, 01:12 PM
Ilan Vardi
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

"Andy Coggan" wrote in message nk.net...
"Ilan Vardi" wrote in message
m...

Once again, I use an opportunity to differentiate myself from most
scientists
by admitting when I have made a mistake.


Once again, you use an opportunity to aggrandize yourself by making trivial
criticisms.

Andy Coggan


I am continually amazed by the capacity of scientists to defend their mistakes.
How can you not admit that you were completely wrong in defending your use
of the term velocity? Recall that science is a search for the truth. In that
sense it is you who is more concerned with ego, since it takes precendence
over objective truth.

-ilan
  #18  
Old November 15th 03, 01:12 PM
RK
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Benjamin Weiner wrote in message news:3fb5beee$1@darkstar...
Ilan Vardi wrote:

Once again, I use an opportunity to differentiate myself from most
scientists
by admitting when I have made a mistake.


Ilan, you're not a scientist. You are a mathematician.


How to tell the difference between a mathematician and a scientist:

Step 1: Present the subject with a bunson burner, an empty beaker and
a match.
The tast is to boil water. Both the mathematican and the scientist
will fill the beaker with water, light the burner, and place the
beaker over the flame until it boils.

Step 2. This time the beaker is full of water and the burner is
already lighted. The subject is told to boil water. The scientist
places the beaker over the flame until the water boils. The
mathematician empties the beaker, turns off the burner, and says "I
have reduced the problem to the preceeding case."
-----
Back to power and weight lifting: If hypertrophy accounts for 10 to
20% of the strength increase, isn't that sufficient to justify some
amount of traditional weight training in conjunction with cycling
specific exercises?
  #19  
Old November 15th 03, 01:21 PM
Ilan Vardi
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

Benjamin Weiner wrote in message news:3fb5beee$1@darkstar...
Ilan Vardi wrote:

Once again, I use an opportunity to differentiate myself from most
scientists
by admitting when I have made a mistake.


Ilan, you're not a scientist. You are a mathematician.


This is true, but both share the fact that correctness is most important.

-ilan
  #20  
Old November 15th 03, 02:17 PM
Andy Coggan
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Default why increasing strength doesn't (automatically) increase power

"Ilan Vardi" wrote in message
om...

How can you not admit that you were completely wrong in defending your use
of the term velocity?


Simple: because I wasn't. I specified a direction ("circumferential"),
meaning that what I was speaking about was indeed velocity, not just speed.

Andy Coggan


 




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