Steel frames and le Tour

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:46:26 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:


Dear Carl er cheers Dear

In this thread I didn't ask you to. I asked if you did.

Dear er cheers is that er clear Cheers?

Excuse me, I didn't mean "in this thread." I meant "today."

a écrit:

Anyone know the last year a steel frame was used by a racing
cyclist in the TdF?

GAN/Crédit Agricole were pictured with lugged steel Merckx frames as late as
1998:

http://au-veloclubdeparis.fr/index.p...aison%2019 98

Backstedt's even has a custom seat lug. Whether or not they actually raced
on these frames, I have no idea.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/coceada...31144/sizes/l/

http://www.jamd.com/image/g/1637116

But the single-pivot (Mavic?) brakes do suggest retro leanings.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/19.../backstedt.jpg

and the upward curve of the rear brake cable looks like the result of an MX
Leader's internal cable routing:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/coceada...31136/sizes/o/

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/Walter/8/


James Thomson

wrote:
Dear John,

Were you ignorant or not?

The odds either way are 50/50.

Bob Schwartz

On Jul 10, 11:46*am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
On Jul 10, 8:49*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

I don't know my car is where I parked it last night, ...

If you had a clown car you would.

People hate clown cars -- they won't even steal them.

Wait til gas hits $5/gal. I'm already seeing a lot of scooters. Your
clown car is a limo compared with them. I've got you beat, btw. I've
got a 500cc Honda that typically gets over 50 mpg- 57 on my last
tank.
-Paul

On Jul 10, 11:37*am, wrote:
Fascinating how times have changed. *In the days of steel riders had
"custom" frames made for them, sometimes by builders of their own
choosing. *Now, we supposedly have all of these "stock" carbon frames
(e.g., Cervelo, Trek) with which riders are perfectly content.- Hide quoted text -

No, its possible that a rider may be using a "custom" carbon frames,
i.e., custom geometry/sizing, as such frames have been used in the
Tour, as far back as 1990, when Greg Lemond rode a custom Calfee (then
Carbonframes). Its my understanding that Colnagos can be ordered with
custom geometry/sizing too. Thou, I'm not sure about Time, Ridley or
any of the Chinese-made cookie cutter carbon frames.

On 2008-07-10, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:37:51 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Thanks for the info. Not an alloy frame to be found. I assume those
are are the "official" bikes of the team. It is still theoretically
possible that individual riders have different bikes than these, no?
(I will not argue that any of them are steel, however).

I wouldnt' be surprised to see a rider or two in their on an aluminum
frame, especially if the sponsor makes both aluminum and carbon fiber
frames.

I thought I remembered Liggett saying Contador had a "special titanium
climbing bike" for the 2007 Paris-Nice (which he won).

I found some pictures:
http://www.albertocontadornotebook.i...llery2007.html

The bike in most of those pictures is kind of silver coloured, but looks
more like carbon fibre from the shape of the tubes (especially in the
stage 7 picture).

Anyway part of his skull is made of titanium.

-snip frames-
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
You think team sponsors who are going nuts spending money to get their
name into the most televised and photographed bike race in the world
wouldnt' care if some "lower-level" rider is riding something
different?
Wow.

A Muzi wrote:
Long history of that, actually. Especially in climbs and TT.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
Among lower-level riders? Riding technology that is not cutting-edge
but rather older than what the team wants them to ride?
I dont' think so.
This steel thing is not like some top pro painting a carbon Vitus to
look like a steel Raleigh in the late 1980s (which I've seen
first-hand) or Lance Armstrong riding a re-baded Litespeed TT bike
instead of a Trek (photos).

Absolutely, we mostly agree. In this era there's much less of that.

I could see a different maker's carbon thing rebadged for a TT though,
given the limited top tube lengths etc available in modern 'frame
systems'. I have no reason to believe there are any steel frames on the
Tour or in any Pro venue. But there were many cases of prima donna
riders who firmly believed another designer/builder's piece was 'better'
than the team issue piece over the years.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jul 10, 11:21*am, wrote:
On Jul 10, 1:04*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

And here's a surrogate. *Find a single example of a pro tour or
continental level pro team using a steel frame in any UCI-level race
in Europe. *Try it. *Can you find even one? *

I know that I can't find one. *It would be interesting to hear from
anyone who has. *Yesterday bfd replied with Dede Barry's 2002 world
cup frame as an example of a steel frame that was used successfully in
pro-level competetion. *That's nearly 6 years ago though.

I would be quite surpised if a steel frame were used by anyone in a
Grand Tour. *I like and appreciate the ride qualities of a good steel
frame but at that level of competetion I would guess that any benefits
they provide in terms of "comfort" would be more than negated by those
provided by a lighter, stiffer carbon frame. *I might be less
surprised to find out that someone used a modern steel frame in a race
like Paris-Roubaix.

Steel was used in Paris-Roubaix in 2006. See http://tinyurl.com/z4w5y
Note the cyclocross-like bike further down the page with conventional
32 spoke wheels, tied and soldered. Jobst would give them an ear
full! -- Jay Beattie.

Paul G. wrote:
On Jul 10, 12:59 pm, Scott wrote:
On Jul 10, 1:29 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:21:47 -0700 (PDT), Scott
wrote:
The odds for any given rider using a steel frame is not
1 in 10 or 1 in 100 or whatever. It's 50/50.
Is this a joke?
No. It's really quite binary. Either a rider IS or IS NOT riding a
steel frame.

Holy ****! I'm buying lottery tickets now that I know my odds of
winning are binary! I'm either going to win, or not. 50/50!
-Paul

Buying a ticket doesn't really change the odds much. The difference
between zero and 10e-49 isn't much.

/dave a

On Jul 10, 4:36*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:35:19 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson

Dear Carl. *Did I say you didn't or did I ask?

Please shut up now.

Dear John,

Were you ignorant or not?

Incidentally, have you caught up yet?

Or do you want to tell me to shut up again if I haven't put 7 more
pounds on my bike for your education?

Quit trying to hijack the thread. We're beating up on Scott at the
moment.

R