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STOP THE FEAR MONGERING



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 3rd 09, 05:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Howard Kveck
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Posts: 3,549
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

In article ,
"K. Gringioni" wrote:

On Mar 2, 6:41*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
*"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

Should the government own 80% of AIG, or should it have let it fail?


* *Since it is *so* tied into the world-wide economy, it became something that
can't be allowed to fail (and I believe that no entity should ever be allowed to
"get so big it can't be allowed to fail"). However, the fact that they were doing
business with the big banks of so many countries that makes me think that the
governments of those other countries need to pony up also.


The only problem is: it's our fault.

Phil Gramm started the ball rolling with the "Commodities Futures
Modernization Act". Google it. Then Greenspan compounded the error by
letting the post 9/11 easy money policy go on for 2 or 3 years too
long. Because of the ways the derviatives spread risk, we spread the
contagion to all the other large financial institutions in the world.

It's a ****ing mess. There was a reason that those types of financial
instruments were outlawed after 1929. Thank you very much Phil Gramm.
****ing asshole.


Phil Gramm, who went on to be on the board of UBS, that ate **** big time via the
very things that Gramm helped create. Anyway, yeah, I agree with you that it was the
fault of the US for creating the environment where those instruments took over. But
the banks of other countries (a notable exception: Canada) bought into the system,
even though they were warned not to by people in the position to know (people
internal to the banks), just like here. AIG was just the company that insured those
financial instruments, and all over the world. Globalization has its faults - this is
one of them.

By the way, I read an article this weekend that talked about how the FBI was
warning about mortgage fraud pretty early in the mess but the warnings were ignored
and the guys working on that were generally shifted to counterterrorism (which
probably means spending time running down the **** "leads" that were tortured out of
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed). What was interesting was that the focus of their allegations
was not fraud by borrowers, as the wingnuts want us to believe, but fraud on the part
of mortgage brokers and lenders. I'll see if I can round it up out my history.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Ads
  #32  
Old March 3rd 09, 06:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Scott
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Posts: 1,859
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mar 2, 8:00*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Mar 2, 5:32*pm, Scott wrote:





On Mar 2, 12:40*pm, "Paul G." wrote:


On Mar 2, 11:00*am, Bill C wrote:


*When they are insisting that Congressmen have to vote to pass this
without even giving them the time to read the thousands of pages,
"trust us", then that's beyond ****ed up, but hey if it works for you
folks.


Practical consideration- how long do you figure it would take all 500+
members of Congress to read those thousands of pages? *What would
happen in the meantime?
-Paul


How long did it take Pelosi and crew to write those 1000+ pages?
Perhaps I'm naive, but if a bill is too long to be read in it's
entirety, it's too long to vote on (for or against).


Oh, as to what would happen in the meantime, we might not have lost
another 15% in the market. *Doing nothing is often a bad thing, but
doing the wrong thing is always a bad thing. *Sometimes nothing is
better.


How many times did you vote for Bush?
-Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


What's your point?
  #33  
Old March 3rd 09, 06:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Scott
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Posts: 1,859
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mar 2, 8:55*pm, "K. Gringioni" wrote:
On Mar 2, 5:32*pm, Scott wrote:





On Mar 2, 12:40*pm, "Paul G." wrote:


On Mar 2, 11:00*am, Bill C wrote:


*When they are insisting that Congressmen have to vote to pass this
without even giving them the time to read the thousands of pages,
"trust us", then that's beyond ****ed up, but hey if it works for you
folks.


Practical consideration- how long do you figure it would take all 500+
members of Congress to read those thousands of pages? *What would
happen in the meantime?
-Paul


How long did it take Pelosi and crew to write those 1000+ pages?
Perhaps I'm naive, but if a bill is too long to be read in it's
entirety, it's too long to vote on (for or against).


Dumbass -

Believe it or not, nearly all bills are too long for the congressmen
to read.

As for doing nothing: read what Warren Buffet said in the article in
the first post of this thread.

There were times when doing nothing was better, such as the Clinton/
Gingrich years. This is not one of those times.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Not according to the CBO's assessment. Nothing would've been better
than the Obama/Pelosi spending bill.
  #34  
Old March 3rd 09, 09:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro[_3_]
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Posts: 1,569
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

Howard Kveck wrote:
Think about it this way: all that the Republicans and conservatives
have right now are Rush Limbaugh (a drug adict sex tourist), Not-Joe the Not-Plumber and
some 14 year old kid who "spoke" at CPAC this weekend. Haha!


And someone who sees Russia from her front porch while barbecuing a
moose.

Didn't there used to be some (intentionally ?) surrealistic tv sitcom
about a town in Alaska ?

  #35  
Old March 3rd 09, 09:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro[_3_]
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Posts: 1,569
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

thefronny wrote:
5339

Of course, I don't know anymore than the next person but remember, this
*is* the nation that RE-elected George Bush. Besides, somebody has to get
the cluster **** started.


Are we having a pool ? Winner gets 1 (one) AIG share.

  #36  
Old March 3rd 09, 10:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:05:59 -0800 (PST), Scott
wrote:

On Mar 2, 8:00*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Mar 2, 5:32*pm, Scott wrote:





On Mar 2, 12:40*pm, "Paul G." wrote:


On Mar 2, 11:00*am, Bill C wrote:


*When they are insisting that Congressmen have to vote to pass this
without even giving them the time to read the thousands of pages,
"trust us", then that's beyond ****ed up, but hey if it works for you
folks.


Practical consideration- how long do you figure it would take all 500+
members of Congress to read those thousands of pages? *What would
happen in the meantime?
-Paul


How long did it take Pelosi and crew to write those 1000+ pages?
Perhaps I'm naive, but if a bill is too long to be read in it's
entirety, it's too long to vote on (for or against).


Oh, as to what would happen in the meantime, we might not have lost
another 15% in the market. *Doing nothing is often a bad thing, but
doing the wrong thing is always a bad thing. *Sometimes nothing is
better.


How many times did you vote for Bush?
-Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


What's your point?


That no one should take you seriously.
  #37  
Old March 3rd 09, 10:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:07:15 -0800 (PST), Scott
wrote:

On Mar 2, 8:55*pm, "K. Gringioni" wrote:
On Mar 2, 5:32*pm, Scott wrote:





On Mar 2, 12:40*pm, "Paul G." wrote:


On Mar 2, 11:00*am, Bill C wrote:


*When they are insisting that Congressmen have to vote to pass this
without even giving them the time to read the thousands of pages,
"trust us", then that's beyond ****ed up, but hey if it works for you
folks.


Practical consideration- how long do you figure it would take all 500+
members of Congress to read those thousands of pages? *What would
happen in the meantime?
-Paul


How long did it take Pelosi and crew to write those 1000+ pages?
Perhaps I'm naive, but if a bill is too long to be read in it's
entirety, it's too long to vote on (for or against).


Dumbass -

Believe it or not, nearly all bills are too long for the congressmen
to read.

As for doing nothing: read what Warren Buffet said in the article in
the first post of this thread.

There were times when doing nothing was better, such as the Clinton/
Gingrich years. This is not one of those times.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Not according to the CBO's assessment. Nothing would've been better
than the Obama/Pelosi spending bill.


What? Now you're just making stuff up.

  #38  
Old March 3rd 09, 02:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,035
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:06:59 -0800 (PST), Bill C
wrote:

Couple of weeks, maybe a month. In the meantime contain the fires as
best as possible, make the case that we are going to go into this with
a plan, the best possible advice, solid controls we haven't had in the
past, etc... Take a little bit of time to make sure all the ducks are
at least in a gaggle where you can line them up, and it looks like a
plan, not a kneejerk panic reaction.


Seriously, we do all know that it is the congressional staffs that
actually read the budget and most of that is based on precis (pl?)
provided? Some of the senate staffs have the resources to tear apart a
lot of a bill in a very short period of time.

I've been in a couple of break down sessions back when I was more
active with non-profits in DC. It would be ten or so of us and we
would be handed our pages to go through. You scan your stuff, redline
the stuff that looks important or dicey and then go over it again,
while the senior people look at the redlined stuff. You can get
through a lot in a night.

The senior guys had access to the congressional staffs as well.
Anything that gored one of our oxen got called in. The process can
cover a lot of ground. Of course, the people with access were the
people that supported that congressperson's point of view, so it
wasn't exactly bipartisan input that they got.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
  #39  
Old March 3rd 09, 02:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,035
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:05:38 -0800 (PST), "K. Gringioni"
wrote:


Luckily for us, our guy whom you mention never managed to get into a
mess of that magntude. Not for a lack of trying.


Not to mention lives saved in winter by invading countries closer to
the equator.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
  #40  
Old March 3rd 09, 03:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,859
Default STOP THE FEAR MONGERING

On Mar 3, 2:47*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:05:59 -0800 (PST), Scott





wrote:
On Mar 2, 8:00*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Mar 2, 5:32*pm, Scott wrote:


On Mar 2, 12:40*pm, "Paul G." wrote:


On Mar 2, 11:00*am, Bill C wrote:


*When they are insisting that Congressmen have to vote to pass this
without even giving them the time to read the thousands of pages,
"trust us", then that's beyond ****ed up, but hey if it works for you
folks.


Practical consideration- how long do you figure it would take all 500+
members of Congress to read those thousands of pages? *What would
happen in the meantime?
-Paul


How long did it take Pelosi and crew to write those 1000+ pages?
Perhaps I'm naive, but if a bill is too long to be read in it's
entirety, it's too long to vote on (for or against).


Oh, as to what would happen in the meantime, we might not have lost
another 15% in the market. *Doing nothing is often a bad thing, but
doing the wrong thing is always a bad thing. *Sometimes nothing is
better.


How many times did you vote for Bush?
-Paul- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


What's your point?


That no one should take you seriously.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



We're not talking about President Bush here, so your reference to him
is useless. We're not even talking about ANY republican alternative
to President Obama. We're talking about the current president, the
"stimulus" bill and the state of the economy. You hate President
Bush, we all get that. But let's try to stay on point.

Here's something serious for you to consider. Check the level of the
market the day before the election, the day of the inauguration, the
day the House released their initial version of the spending bill, the
day the House republicans voted against it, the day those three
miserable Senate republicans voted to prevent further debate, and the
day the spending bill was signed into law. Check the level the day
they announced another 4+ bil dollar pork bill laden with 9000
earmarks, and then you tell us what's driving the market down. The
pattern is pretty clear. When it looked like there may be some
serious debate on a STIMULUS bill the market was stable, or even a
little up. It's been on a significant spiral ever since it was clear
there was no stimulus but lots of spending. The markets have spoken:
Obama/Pelosi spending bill is NOT going to stimulate anything other
than big govt and big debt.
 




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