RIP VDB

In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote:

Man, I thought he'd be the next campionissimo.

RIP.

When he was on, he was *on* - it was pretty great to watch. That's really sad news.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On Oct 12, 8:48*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
*"Robert Chung" wrote:

Man, I thought he'd be the next campionissimo.

RIP.

* *When he was on, he was *on* - it was pretty great to watch. That's really sad news.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard

* * * * * * * * * * * * *Caught playing safe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * It's a bored game

* * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

indeed, very very sad. but we all knew this (i.e., early death for
VDB) was coming ... elite cyclists with mental health/depression
issues die early; we know this. pantani, jimenez, etc.

my deepest condolences to his family. i was rooting for him.

-b-

On Oct 13, 10:30*am, Geraard Spergen wrote:
Yup.

when I was a cop I picked up a few elderly people who died of natural
causes and a few suicides.
On one hand I felt so sorry for their friends and family, but on the
other, it's an incredibly selfish act; maybe unless you're a Japanese
politician with samurai blood.
It's not until you're dealt with someone in the pit of depression that
you can relate either way.

"Henry" wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 10:30 am, Geraard Spergen wrote:
Yup.

when I was a cop I picked up a few elderly people who died of natural
causes and a few suicides.
On one hand I felt so sorry for their friends and family, but on the
other, it's an incredibly selfish act; maybe unless you're a Japanese
politician with samurai blood.
It's not until you're dealt with someone in the pit of depression that
you can relate either way.

I think that a lot of the problem is the drugs themselves that push those
with a problem over the line.

On Oct 12, 8:48*pm, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
*"Robert Chung" wrote:

Man, I thought he'd be the next campionissimo.

RIP.

* *When he was on, he was *on* - it was pretty great to watch. That's really sad news.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard

* * * * * * * * * * * * *Caught playing safe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * It's a bored game

* * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

He never gave up on his comeback attempts. Even though we knew it was
fruitless. Bon voyage Frank.

Andre

On Oct 13, 2:44*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
"Henry" wrote in message

...

On Oct 13, 10:30 am, Geraard Spergen wrote:
Yup.

when I was a cop I picked up a few elderly people who died of natural
causes and a few suicides.
On one hand I felt so sorry for their friends and family, but on the
other, it's an incredibly selfish act; maybe unless you're a Japanese
politician with samurai blood.
It's not until you're dealt with someone in the pit of depression that
you can relate either way.

I think that a lot of the problem is the drugs themselves that push those
with a problem over the line.

we have (or used to) the highest rate in the world of teenage males
and suicide here in NZL.
In an interesting statistic (which I don't recall) most of them smoked
dope.

In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

"Geraard Spergen" wrote in message
...
Yup.

I was thinking about VdB while Gerlach was being discussed. What does it
take to pull somene out of a downward spiral like that? Can it be done at
all? Perhaps we focus entirely on the failures and miss the success stories,
people who have overcome (somehow, some way) their inner demons and thrived.
Maybe inner demons are so personal that what is learned from one doesn't
apply to another.

Mike, it isn't easy and sometimes it simply isn't possible. There are societal
stigmas placed on depression and addiction that sometimes make it hard for people who
suffer from them to get help, many of which are based on a lack of understanding
about how powerful those afflictions can be. I think those stigmas are among the
reasons that we don't often get a chance to focus on someone who has successfully
gotten past their problems: they may fear opening up about having had the problem in
the first place because they fear being judged negatively for it.

Beyond that, sometimes a person dealing with those problems just can't get past
them, no matter how much help they get. Sometimes the root cause is chemical (which
things like SSRIs can help), other times it's a pervasive belief that things are
written in stone and, therefore, unchangeable. You are correct to a point in
suggesting that "inner demons are so personal that what is learned from one doesn't
apply to another." What can be learned from one person's issues is a methodology that
can be a starting point for working with someone else.

On a related note: a few days ago, Peter Chisolm wrote, "They HAVE to want to get
better before they will." [1] While I believe this is true to a certain extent, I
also think it can be and often is applied a bit simplisticly (and I don't know if
Peter was doing that or not based on the context of his post). What I mean by that is
that people sometimes say that about a depressed or addicted person, essentially
suggesting that if the person wanted to, they could just snap out of it. For example,
saying, "She's just wallowing in her own misery."

The only thing I do know is that it's very, very sad.

True.

[1] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...16a301065b0e0f

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article ,
Henry wrote:

On Oct 13, 2:44*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
"Henry" wrote in message

...

On Oct 13, 10:30 am, Geraard Spergen wrote:
Yup.

when I was a cop I picked up a few elderly people who died of natural
causes and a few suicides.
On one hand I felt so sorry for their friends and family, but on the
other, it's an incredibly selfish act; maybe unless you're a Japanese
politician with samurai blood.
It's not until you're dealt with someone in the pit of depression that
you can relate either way.

I think that a lot of the problem is the drugs themselves that push those
with a problem over the line.

we have (or used to) the highest rate in the world of teenage males
and suicide here in NZL.
In an interesting statistic (which I don't recall) most of them smoked
dope.

Well, I'd be willing to bet that many, if not most, drank, too. The corelation may
be less than you seem to be suggesting, Henry.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article
,
Henry wrote:

On Oct 13, 2:44Â*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
"Henry" wrote in message

...

On Oct 13, 10:30 am, Geraard Spergen wrote:
Yup.

when I was a cop I picked up a few elderly people who died of natural
causes and a few suicides.
On one hand I felt so sorry for their friends and family, but on the
other, it's an incredibly selfish act; maybe unless you're a Japanese
politician with samurai blood.
It's not until you're dealt with someone in the pit of depression that
you can relate either way.

I think that a lot of the problem is the drugs themselves that push those
with a problem over the line.

we have (or used to) the highest rate in the world of teenage males
and suicide here in NZL.
In an interesting statistic (which I don't recall) most of them smoked
dope.

Marijuana interferes with memory; long term memory
does not get laid down, so the user cannot develop.
There is a movie I do not like, but it does put
across the helplessness: Memento.

No matter how much is said in favor of drugs for
helping a sufferer, he does not get better unless
he stops taking drugs.

--
Michael Press

On Oct 12, 9:39*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,





*Henry wrote:
On Oct 13, 2:44*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
"Henry" wrote in message

....

On Oct 13, 10:30 am, Geraard Spergen wrote:
Yup.

when I was a cop I picked up a few elderly people who died of natural
causes and a few suicides.
On one hand I felt so sorry for their friends and family, but on the
other, it's an incredibly selfish act; maybe unless you're a Japanese
politician with samurai blood.
It's not until you're dealt with someone in the pit of depression that
you can relate either way.

I think that a lot of the problem is the drugs themselves that push those
with a problem over the line.

we have (or used to) the highest rate in the world of teenage males
and suicide here in NZL.
In an interesting statistic (which I don't recall) most of them smoked
dope.

Marijuana interferes with memory; long term memory
does not get laid down, so the user cannot develop.
There is a movie I do not like, but it does put
across the helplessness: Memento.

No matter how much is said in favor of drugs for
helping a sufferer, he does not get better unless
he stops taking drugs.



Dumbass -

The root cause of the addicts' disease isn't drug use. It's depression/
chemical imbalance.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.